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Protests in five states as union battle rages

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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Thu 10 Mar 2011, 21:38:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')ake Obama and the dems....after two years we can see what their economic policies are what the results are. The dems DID NOT raise taxes on the rich...in fact Obama himself pushed an extension of the Bush tax cuts through the Pelosi COngress at the end of 2010. :roll:

Obama didn't tax the wealthy. He voted for the bailouts, then he handed ot the bailouts. Three years after big collapse, where are the criminal charges against the banksters? Not only is Obama not prosecuting his buddies at Goldman Sachs, even Obama's claims he would curtail salaries of the banksters turned out to be phony.

Does no one remember that Dubya started the Bailouts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1X6RQLZtoA
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby americandream » Thu 10 Mar 2011, 21:45:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'C')id, this battle was fought back in November. You're just figured out you lost. The Republican just aren't cowering like they have in the past. Huge debt, recognition by the voters that strong efforts need to be done, gives one these consequences. Let me buy you a kleenex.



Hahahaha. So funny. Huge debt, Bush. Decoupling.

There a word for this. Perverse.

Poor working man.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Ferretlover » Thu 10 Mar 2011, 22:54:12

IMO, this is just another layer of civil liberties being removed. And, this time, in a society where the government is supposed to be by, for and of the people, the people are being completely ignored.
As I mentioned a couple of years ago, the Republicans have learned that they can do what they want, there is no-one and no laws to stop them. Even if there are/were laws, they are being trampled as fast as they can be found.
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 10 Mar 2011, 23:08:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '
')Does no one remember that Dubya started the Bailouts?



Does no one remember that Obama is running the country now? I can see how some might want to gloss over that fact, since Obama has proven to be a complete incompetent, but its odd that people complain about the bailouts or the deficits or the failed job creation policies while placing no blame on the Obama administration for its failings :roll:
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby americandream » Thu 10 Mar 2011, 23:14:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '
')Does no one remember that Dubya started the Bailouts?



Does no one remember that Obama is running the country now? I can see how some might want to gloss over that fact, since Obama has proven to be a complete incompetent, but its odd that people complain about the bailouts or the deficits or the failed job creation policies while placing no blame on the Obama administration for its failings :roll:


He runs the country and has been saddled with your pals debts. Your pals should NOT have gotten into debt in the first place. They have lumbered their incompetency on this guy. Big time. To blame him for your friends debts is sheer gobshite.

Your friends shipped jobs off to China. Obama is trying to create jobs. When your friends get back, not only will they can this effort, they will continue sending jobs to low wage labour in your friends Chinese and Indian factories.

Say after me. Ponzi scheme.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 10 Mar 2011, 23:25:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')
He runs the country and has been saddled with ... debts. .


Obama created more debt just in the month of Feb 2011 then Bush created for the entire year of 2007-------and Feb is a short month,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')Obama is trying to create jobs.


Thats nice. But Obama is so incompetent he destroyed millions of jobs instead.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby americandream » Thu 10 Mar 2011, 23:43:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')bama created more debt just in the month of Feb 2011 then Bush created for the entire year of 2007.


Bollix. The state of US finances are directly or indirectly related to letting the racketeers loose to do as they please with no oversight, on your friends watch. I trade the markets and am fully aware that America's predicament has its origins in the incompetents who were in the White House before Obama. The fact that he has had to beg, borrow and steal to pay off those shenanigans says more for the scale of the disaster than the fact that he has had to take out debt and tap the taxpayer to keep the economy afloat.

You people still have the cheek to press for more deregulation inspite of your incompetence. Trying to fob it off on the Democrats (whom I rate as pretty ineffectual weaklings but a darn sight not as harmful as you whacknuts) is the sort fo thing you snakeoil salesmen will do.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')hats nice. But Obama is so incompetent he destroyed millions of jobs instead.


Like his social democrats were pushing for free trade and the export of jobs to China! More snakeoil.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Cog » Fri 11 Mar 2011, 00:48:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'I')MO, this is just another layer of civil liberties being removed. And, this time, in a society where the government is supposed to be by, for and of the people, the people are being completely ignored.
As I mentioned a couple of years ago, the Republicans have learned that they can do what they want, there is no-one and no laws to stop them. Even if there are/were laws, they are being trampled as fast as they can be found.


Elections have consequences. Perhaps next time you will get out there and vote out those "evil" Republicans instead of sitting on the couch.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby americandream » Fri 11 Mar 2011, 00:49:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'I')MO, this is just another layer of civil liberties being removed. And, this time, in a society where the government is supposed to be by, for and of the people, the people are being completely ignored.
As I mentioned a couple of years ago, the Republicans have learned that they can do what they want, there is no-one and no laws to stop them. Even if there are/were laws, they are being trampled as fast as they can be found.


Elections have consequences. Perhaps next time you will get out there and vote out those "evil" Republicans instead of sitting on the couch.


How do you know how she voted?
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Oakley » Fri 11 Mar 2011, 02:30:30

The "battle" is over who bears the burden of economic contraction. Considering that we are just in the infancy of the collapse of the industrial age for want of energy to fuel it, the future should be interesting to say the least.

Just imagine what will happen when the federal government finally gets to the point where they can't deliver on all their promises. They will not only default on the formal national debt, but will not pay the benefits they have promised to social security and medicare beneficiaries. I suspect that the political pressure to significantly cut these benefits will make the current union demonstrations look like a summer picnic. My bet is that within a decade or two, the federal government goes the way of the USSR and just collapses and closes up shop.

On the public employee union issue, there is no such right as a "collective bargaining right". In a free society you are free to join whatever organization you want or to not join. Employers are free to bargain or not with individuals or unions. What people refer to as "collective bargaining rights" are really special privileges (power) granted to unions by laws that force employers to bargain with unions. In effect these laws interfere with the free market with the outcome that union members receive more than they would in the free market, otherwise what would be the point. I am hardly sympathetic with these unions because they distort the free market and transfer wealth by government force from someone else's pocket to union members pockets; in the case of public employee unions from the pockets of taxpayers. You are mistaken if you think that revoking the laws that give unions privilege is a destruction of civil liberties; it is quite the opposite, i.e, creation of these laws in the first place destroyed civil liberties.

I am not sympathetic with the thug corporations that use government to rig the economy in their favor either. And the Democrat and Republican politicians (almost all of them) who are involved in the widespread destruction of freedom and free markets make we want to puke.

Government is a monopoly. They don't have competition to put pressure on them to be effective and efficient, so if they are dealing with public employee unions they just cave in to union demands and increase taxes to compensate. The unions, with a significant bank account from union dues fund the campaigns of politicians who are willing to respond to union demands. A mutuality of interests develops just like the mutuality of interest between big corporations and politicians (economic fascism). Ultimately the general public gets a good screwing. But the ending of the industrial age is putting limits on the ability of governments to plunder taxpayers, hence government cut backs. Resistance to the plunder and control society is increasing whether it is state governments breaking their special relationships with unions (because the states are broke and have reached the limit on plundering taxpayers) or citizens rejecting big government in movements like the tea party.

As the economic pie continues to contract there will simply not be enough to support the entire population, and there will be major changes. Governments, unions, big corporations and other special interests will likely be looked upon with contempt as the average person struggles just to stay alive; privilege for the few at the expense of the many will become intolerable. Many governments will be swept away. Scarcity will become the constant companion of most with deprivation and death being common. Those feeding at the government trough will complain as they are today in Wisconsin, but government will not be able to listen because those they plunder to pay for the feed will be broke and will resist, and government will be scrambling just to survive as a shadow of its former self, if at all.

So I can't really get excited about the complaints of overpaid union members as they face the loss of their ability to force their employers to pay them more than a free market would value their services. Their narcissistic special interest pails in comparison to the magnitude of what is to come. If you are dependent upon government or the mainstream economic system, I think you are screwed. Egypt and Wisconsin are just a minor foreshadowing of a much different future.

What it will come down to is reliance upon one's self, family, friends, and local community, instead of reliance on government and a disintegrating economic system.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 11 Mar 2011, 02:51:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', ' ') I am hardly sympathetic with these unions because they distort the free market and transfer wealth by government force from someone else's pocket to union members pockets; in the case of public employee unions from the pockets of taxpayers. You are mistaken if you think that revoking the laws that give unions privilege is a destruction of civil liberties; it is quite the opposite, i.e, creation of these laws in the first place destroyed civil liberties.

.


One thing these protests have made clear. Democrats can't be trusted to negotiate contracts with government unions who simultaneously "buy" the democrats politicians with camapaign dollars. 8)
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 11 Mar 2011, 09:58:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')One thing these protests have made clear. Democrats can't be trusted to negotiate contracts with government unions who simultaneously "buy" the democrats politicians with camapaign dollars. 8)


Yeah, the Republicans are a paragon of virtue when it comes to campaign money.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 11 Mar 2011, 10:02:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')ake Obama and the dems....after two years we can see what their economic policies are what the results are. The dems DID NOT raise taxes on the rich...in fact Obama himself pushed an extension of the Bush tax cuts through the Pelosi COngress at the end of 2010. :roll:

Obama didn't tax the wealthy. He voted for the bailouts, then he handed ot the bailouts. Three years after big collapse, where are the criminal charges against the banksters? Not only is Obama not prosecuting his buddies at Goldman Sachs, even Obama's claims he would curtail salaries of the banksters turned out to be phony.

Does no one remember that Dubya started the Bailouts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1X6RQLZtoA


Planty's got his own Steve Jobs' like reality-distortion-field.
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Re: Protests in five states as union battle rages

Unread postby Mesuge » Fri 11 Mar 2011, 10:55:40

Well, I think that Moore made one important and great point in that TV interview, Q: why it erupted in the north, from my personal experience, these states still carry over some of the features of the "good old america" mythos, for what ever it is (perhaps) worth. This was the last people's bastillion of the past, now they have to protest to keep it. Is it futile attempt and/or few decades too late? I don't know. Perhaps after some wave of insurection and violence you get "Hugo" for president next time, Kucinich-Nader like ticket.. But I doubt it since it looks more like that the current hawaian-chicago actor is like Gorbi, the collapse comes with him.
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