[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '&')quot;Large Scale commercial permaculture" is an oxymoron.

[Ludi]

Here's the best example I can immediately think of for a "farm scale" permaculture endeavor, about 100 acres:

http://www.krameterhof.at/en/index.php? ... ermakultur

I'm not sure what the criteria for "large scale commercial" might be, by today's standards, possibly 1000s of acres? I know there's at least one landowner planning such a thing, but it is only in the planning stages at this point (theoretical).

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Then how do we feed 7 billion people?

[PrestonSturges]

There is an effort now to develop perennial grains, FWIW

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')here is an effort now to develop perennial grains, FWIW

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')"Large Scale commercial permaculture" is an oxymoron.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')If one man/woman can manage a food forest of a few acres why can't 100 people manage a food forest of a few hundred acres? I mean sure it would take some organization but what worthwhile endeavor doesn't?

[SilentRunning]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m sure it could, if there was enough buy-in on the concept AND long-term commitments. That's where things always seem to get derailed--the human element. When I see what goes on here at the micro level in the suburbs with new McMansionistas moving in and tearing up raspberries on the border to put in arbor vitae screens, it makes it hard for me to conceive of true long-term earth stewardship with chestnuts and other trees that take decades to mature. Permaculture really requires more of a conservationist mindset. You're not conserving what's there (outside of zone 5), you're going to build something new and then conserve what you build. There's already some of that mentality with old orchards and vinyards that have been passed down for generations. That's kind of what everybody would have to think about their land, that it is like a fragile heirloom, not that the land is just a commodity to sell off to real estate speculators.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')I still don't see why permaculture inherently cannot be made large scale.

If one man/woman can manage a food forest of a few acres why can't 100 people manage a food forest of a few hundred acres?

[Homesteader]

Not being a tecno-cornucopian, about the only way I can see that it would be possible for people to take a significant amount of CO2 out of the atmosphere is to stop cutting trees and start reforesting areas that were once forested. In order for these areas to still produce food the way kill both birds with the same stone is the permaculture/food forest route.

Of course the effort would have to be massive.

Of course it will never happen.

<---working on his own little food forest.

[SeaGypsy]

I think it would pay permies and doubters to have a close look at agriculture in parts of Asia, Latin America, Africa and old Europe. Places where it has always been normal to eat locally in season.
Here in the Philippines 98% of my food comes from the valleys around where I live and the same goes for everyone else around here (almost). It is possible to have a much more balanced urban/ agricultural/ wild lands system on a much more localised platform and it is already happening in some places without having to be construed to the enth degree; but out of necessity, practicality and affordability. Living in the shadow of Pinatubo I can see new rainforest growing in many places which were previously rock. I can see everyday people are getting smarter in provincial Asia. Doing things better, being frugal but creative. One of the first traps to get out of and perhaps the hardest is the obsession with $$$.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '
')Of course it will never happen.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'i')t is already happening in some places without having to be construed to the enth degree; but out of necessity, practicality and affordability.

[SeaGypsy]

I know one aged gentleman who lives from a 4 square meter garden and a rotational sprout system, spends about $10 a week on inputs. According to him the reason to depopulate is to leave something for nature; despite the fact we could easily feed 60 billion people if that is all we wanted to do.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', ' ')According to him the reason to depopulate is to leave something for nature; despite the fact we could easily feed 60 billion people if that is all we wanted to do.

[SeaGypsy]

Why is it that in "The Land of The Free and Home of the Brave" people need to be threatened with FEMA concentration camps before being ordered to do what comes naturally? Weird country.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hy is it that in "The Land of The Free and Home of the Brave" people need to be threatened with FEMA concentration camps before being ordered to do what comes naturally? Weird country.

[SeaGypsy]

Moo

[scas]

Why not eat insects? They can be farmed cheaply and are probably the highest EROEI form of protein available. It's likely that they will thrive in a hot-house world, and can easily be turned into some form of dry biscuit.

http://www.ted.com/talks/marcel_dicke_w ... sects.html

People here have doubts as to the ability for industrial nations to radically overhaul their food supply upon realization of an impending famine. Personally, i'm slightly more optimistic, but scientists need to sound the call.

[Ludi]

dupe