[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'Y')ou just throw tantrums.

*yawn*

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')ou guys, our little techtopian coterie of three--Carlhole, Oily, and Xeno--make for strange bedfellows. Cornhole is a 9/11 Truther, Xeno a AGW/Evolution-Denier, and Oily (Oilfinder??) believes that his posts are the same as finding petroleum reserves. An eccentric bunch to say the least.

LEAST!

This ragtag bunch of self-flagellating victims, pointless trolls really, do share a trait---a faith in human exceptionalism. Xeno believe oil will flow forever from our planet, not abiotically or by overturning laws of ecology and decomposition. Rather he has faith in human "laws" of supply/demand and "new" human technologies which will magically grow reserves. In spite of the failures of such gimmicks like fracting, SAGH, THAI, that have already been proven to be little more than investor scams.

[Carlhole]

Oil Panic and the Global Crisis: Predictions & Myths

The author, Stephen Gorelick, PhD, is a Professor of Earth Sciences at Stanford University.

Gorelick has gathered together the best evidence for the PO doomer argument and placed it side-by-side the counter-argument. He has not been the primary originator of any of this data; he has simply compiled the BEST argument for the doomer side using the BEST sources of information. He also has compiled the BEST counter-arguments (originated by others) using the BEST data available from the BEST sources.

He places the two arguments side-by-side in his book and allows the reader to come to his own conclusions. That's it!

This is the same stuff that JD or RGR or Xeno or me have used - except that is expressed in a comprehensive, formal way.

Anyone who reads the book realizes that the counter-argument to PO doom is the more convincing one. Throwing immature and stupid tantrums doesn't change any of this.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.4shared.com/dir/AniCTiRk/Oil_Panic_and_the_Global_Crisi.html]Oil Panic and the Global Crisis: Predictions & Myths[/url]

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') followed your review link. It is by the book's publisher. Lame. Whatever happened to your strict standards of peer review?

[AirlinePilot]

All you have to do is look at the general populace of the US or the rest of the world and see the attitudes concerning the global ponzi scheme and how it is melting down to understand the cognitive dissonance when it comes to peaking of global oil production. I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times, Doomers are not in the majority when it comes to PO. I'm not one, most of us here are not. The smart folks over at TOD are not either. The constant labeling and diatribe castigating this whole site as a Doomers paradise is just ridiculous. Yes there area few here, but most of us believe that its going to be a long emergency. Most of us believe it important to discuss it as once we are off the plateau things are going to CHANGE.

Note I didnt say collapse. Change will be ugly enough when the realization sets in that oil is in decline forever and the ramifications of failing to mitigate that decline cause further problems with economies and societies. Talking about how to cope with that change and make life better are what this site has always been about IMHO. The grating, angering, non productive debate from cornucopia fits no end to that purpose. That is why the invectives fly and there is so much friction for you folks who are literally living in denial.

When decline sets in, and it will, (and I cannot predict that time frame so I dont try) you folks who think that oil will be magically produced forever and that the markets will take care of themselves will have to acknowledge it. The difference between what has transpired on the up slope of mankind's addiction to fossil fuels and what happens in the transition to the other side of that paradigm is one which will be very clear. For those of us who understand the current global economic picture and how it affects alternatives and the ability to replace oil it means lowered standards of living and hardships. IT DOES NOT MEAN DOOM. It can mean that but I dont buy into the DOOM aspect. Humans have a bad track record when it comes to this stuff, history shows that quite well. I see long term significant hardships which myself and my children will have to deal with. I hope for better, but hoping is not how you prepare for life changing events.

A belief in some bright light awakening in mankind at this stage is just as silly as the Doomers. Reality will lay somewhere in between what the DOOMERS see and what the BAU Cornucopians envision. Thats my present take, and the in between will be bad enough. Coping with it, finding solutions, and understanding how to live with less of an energy footprint are the important roles this site can play and has played.

Labeling this as some crazy Doomer lounge is just patently false and I will fight it at every turn along the way. You folks who believe BAU will continue and that oil will continue to magically increase over the years need really to find another playground. Your not convincing anyone here and that appears to be what you are trying to do.

Along with this the Cornies, especially those mentioned above , Really seem to be here for one reason and one reason only and that is to disrupt, anger, and generally corrupt the message and discussions which go on. I'd suggest you folks look in the mirror and wonder why you need or want to do that. It suggests mental disorder and immaturity.

By the way Carlhole, I jsut picked up Gorelicks book and will give it a read. I can and do embrace the "other" argument in the thirst for better understanding on how all of this will or will not play out. It appears not everyone who debates on this subject is willing nor possibly able to do that.

[TheAntiDoomer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')abeling this as some crazy Doomer lounge is just patently false and I will fight it at every turn along the way. You folks who believe BAU will continue and that oil will continue to magically increase over the years need really to find another playground. Your not convincing anyone here and that appears to be what you are trying to do.

[sparky]

@ Airlinepilot
Your post is good , that's the Peak oil mainline and certainly close to my own belief

Some provisos , the long reccession is the Best case ,
food supply problem , misery politics and any such black swans events could disturb the peace .
It's not going to be mad max for sure but strife and conflicts tend to increase when people are hurting

[AirlinePilot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', ' ')What we have said over and over again, is that replacments to oil and gas (which there is plenty of for the time being) will gradually replace our current usage of oil, and life will not necessarly be for the worse as you expect.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.4shared.com/dir/AniCTiRk/Oil_Panic_and_the_Global_Crisi.html]Oil Panic and the Global Crisis: Predictions & Myths[/url]

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', ' ')I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times, Doomers are not in the majority when it comes to PO.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.4shared.com/dir/AniCTiRk/Oil_Panic_and_the_Global_Crisi.html]Oil Panic and the Global Crisis: Predictions & Myths[/url]

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') believe Xeno has finally been canned. I tried to link to his Prius Conversion and the post disappeared.

[AirlinePilot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'L')ocal survey says hard crash 54%, soft landing 46%.