I never bring personal stuff to this forum but I just feel like writing about something going on with me.
My 94 year old grandfather passed away recently. My father passed away before him, about five years ago. The whole family is pretty sure our grandfather was a millionaire. My grandpa had one surviving son, my uncle who never had children. I know for a fact this uncle is a millionaire (which is neither here nor there, but it hurts when someone with so much is greedy with small amounts of money).
My uncle was always my grandfather's favorite. My dad was my grandmother's favorite.. she passed away about twenty years ago. So anyway after my dad passed my sister asked our grandfather what would happen to what had been my father's share of the estate (he was in the old will 50 / 50). My sister says Grandpa told her he would change the will to include us. I can't be 100% sure about this though because I didn't witness him say that and never brought that up to him (I'm too proud to broach such a subject).
Plus to be frank my grandfather has always been emotionally distant, and never cared about anyone other than the one favorite son. I grew up in another state, so only saw him when I visited over the years. I always knew he was a real tightwad but that's okay I didn't visit him for any money. The man never spent one dime on me, I bought him food and cooked for him when I visited. I always liked it that way, that he could never say I ever hit him up for money like some other members of the family did.
Not once did I ask him for a dime. Which is why I'm shocked to find out I'm disinherited.. it's been a couple months since the funeral and I hadn't heard anything about a will so I finally called my uncle the executor. He coldly told me "there will be no distribution for your father's children. Those were Dad's wishes." Now before somebody replies here that for all I know Grandpa gave it to charity, let me just say no that didn't happen -- I know my family, and I know in my gut obviously my uncle just freaking got it all.
There were never harsh words or any bad blood between my grandfather and I, so it hurts that his wishes were that I don't get a thin dime or even one of my grandmother's quilts. I don't want to go into my personal situation, but I could have used a bit of help at this point in my life. For me the whole issue revolves around what the size of the estate is.. if it were just the house, then that's different -- I can understand leaving it to the one surviving son. But I'm 90% sure he was pretty wealthy -- he's been investing for FIFTY YEARS, and anyone still investing after that long most likely has something. But I don't know for sure because we never directly discussed his money -- it's not something I'd ever bring up with him.
So that's the rub.. I know my uncle is very well off -- it's obvious from his lifestyle. My grandfather was a mystery, more of a plain-living Warren Buffet type of wealthy person.
As for contesting the will, after doing some research I think it's hard to win in court -- you have to prove the will invalid, or prove one heir unduly influenced the elderly person to cut the others out. Plus in fairness I was not in the previous will, my father was. And in the end, morally I feel like it is up to the person who they choose to leave their estate to -- if they want to leave it to the dog, then that's their legal right. But morally, I'm pretty damn disappointed in Grandpa (RIP). He was the type to always "do the right thing by people," and I'm really very surprised in that respect.
This post is just about venting.. and I'm curious if anyone on the forum has had anything similar happen to them or in their family. Am I wrong for even expecting anything at all?
As for looking into retaining an attorney, I don't know what to do.. whether to go that route or just forget about all this.
EDIT: and emotionally I'm devastated. It's not even the money as much as just the insult of never having been really recognized as family by my Grandpa, the way most normal grandparents tend to give a damn about grandchildren. My grandmother by the way was a sweetheart.
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Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
by Sixstrings » Thu 06 Jan 2011, 23:40:17
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Re: Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
by PrestonSturges » Fri 07 Jan 2011, 00:52:55
Yes, this happens all the time, like constantly. It's a shocker when family members steal from each other, but any time you get 4 or more people together, one of them will go on a financially driven psychotic rampage given a chance.
Old people become fearful and paranoid, and anyone can convince them that their families are against them yadda yadda and con them into changing the will. As a result there are often multiple wills floating around. Also, if they play favorites, the manipulative parent may change their will over and over.
A friend went through this and there was an old family trust in the wifes name. She died and soon after the deadbeat son hired a meth head nurse and they persuaded the old man to leave "everything" to the son, and sure enough the dad soon died because he was being abused and possibly murdered. My friend hired a good lawyer who read the original trust, which had never been dissolved and did not transfer to the father. So the son cut himself out the will where he would have received 1/3 of the trust and only inherited his fathers clothes. But he was squatting in the family house, and just to settle, everyone went back to the original will so he got his third anyway. But he abused the shit out of his dad for nothing.
Probate fights aren't useful for estates of under $1 M because the lawyers will get everything.
If you want to see the will it should be available as a public document. After the person dies, their attorney takes the will to the county registrar of wills. The county has an interest because of the real estate tax and title issues. That's the official will unless there is some extraordinary circumstance, like a notorized will with a later date is found. The county has an interest in not letting properties be tied up in probate, so the bar for "undue influence" is pretty high.
In my friends case. undue influence was a possibility because the drug addict son was holed up in the house with dad and he hung no trespassing signs and files numerous false complaints against the extended family and made threats that were caught on tape. They had page after page just listing all the psychotic stuff this guy did.
Old people become fearful and paranoid, and anyone can convince them that their families are against them yadda yadda and con them into changing the will. As a result there are often multiple wills floating around. Also, if they play favorites, the manipulative parent may change their will over and over.
A friend went through this and there was an old family trust in the wifes name. She died and soon after the deadbeat son hired a meth head nurse and they persuaded the old man to leave "everything" to the son, and sure enough the dad soon died because he was being abused and possibly murdered. My friend hired a good lawyer who read the original trust, which had never been dissolved and did not transfer to the father. So the son cut himself out the will where he would have received 1/3 of the trust and only inherited his fathers clothes. But he was squatting in the family house, and just to settle, everyone went back to the original will so he got his third anyway. But he abused the shit out of his dad for nothing.
Probate fights aren't useful for estates of under $1 M because the lawyers will get everything.
If you want to see the will it should be available as a public document. After the person dies, their attorney takes the will to the county registrar of wills. The county has an interest because of the real estate tax and title issues. That's the official will unless there is some extraordinary circumstance, like a notorized will with a later date is found. The county has an interest in not letting properties be tied up in probate, so the bar for "undue influence" is pretty high.
In my friends case. undue influence was a possibility because the drug addict son was holed up in the house with dad and he hung no trespassing signs and files numerous false complaints against the extended family and made threats that were caught on tape. They had page after page just listing all the psychotic stuff this guy did.
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Re: Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
by SeaGypsy » Fri 07 Jan 2011, 01:18:12
Yep.
On both sides until the 1970's the eldest son got the lot on the death of his father. It was up to him what he shared and usually it was nothing. In the 1970's my great grandfather died with, lets just say enough to set up all of his 34 grandchildren at the time as millionaires. He gave the lot to his eldest son. that took 34 years of court cases to sort out. Lawyers got more than half. I never saw a cent and nor did my mother until her father died. He broke the mould and inherited all 6 of his children equally. Not a cent for grandchildren. My mother insists she will do likewise as she does not want a decades long courtcase as a momento.
My father died leaving his youngest children by his second wife a couple of tons of Venetian glass. No money at all. Nothing for his other 3 children or either of his 2 wives.
I could have had an extremely different life if my family had a different attitude to money. There are times when I have resented this tradition in my family, but overall as I age I appreciate that I have had to make my own way. When it's life and death my family will help, as in a ticket out of hell, but they will not prop up my ventures or those of any of my siblings. I have had a lot of involvement with Jewish families with exactly the opposite attitude. Supporting children financially well into their late twenties and early thirties.
I don't envy them, our lives are very different; I am an infinitely stronger person than any silver spooner I have known. This despite having far more money in my family than most.
Be carefull not to resent your grandfather for the wrong reasons. He may have just been following an old cultural norm. You didn't mention whether your dad was older or younger? My guess is younger.
On both sides until the 1970's the eldest son got the lot on the death of his father. It was up to him what he shared and usually it was nothing. In the 1970's my great grandfather died with, lets just say enough to set up all of his 34 grandchildren at the time as millionaires. He gave the lot to his eldest son. that took 34 years of court cases to sort out. Lawyers got more than half. I never saw a cent and nor did my mother until her father died. He broke the mould and inherited all 6 of his children equally. Not a cent for grandchildren. My mother insists she will do likewise as she does not want a decades long courtcase as a momento.
My father died leaving his youngest children by his second wife a couple of tons of Venetian glass. No money at all. Nothing for his other 3 children or either of his 2 wives.
I could have had an extremely different life if my family had a different attitude to money. There are times when I have resented this tradition in my family, but overall as I age I appreciate that I have had to make my own way. When it's life and death my family will help, as in a ticket out of hell, but they will not prop up my ventures or those of any of my siblings. I have had a lot of involvement with Jewish families with exactly the opposite attitude. Supporting children financially well into their late twenties and early thirties.
I don't envy them, our lives are very different; I am an infinitely stronger person than any silver spooner I have known. This despite having far more money in my family than most.
Be carefull not to resent your grandfather for the wrong reasons. He may have just been following an old cultural norm. You didn't mention whether your dad was older or younger? My guess is younger.
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Re: Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
by Pretorian » Fri 07 Jan 2011, 01:19:10
Well thats a bummer dude. There is nothing like being screwed by your own family isnt it. I had a somewhat similar story, I dont want to go into details, but it also involved an old dude with no kids getting it all. Who wasnt even related by blood , he was a nephew of a family member that died almost 60 years before the will. My mother says about people like that "He wants to buy himself a golden coffin".
94 is a lot of years , your grandfather could be demented, or otherwise mentally challenged and could be easily influenced. I suggest talking with everybody he was in contact with for the last 5 years. If there is any indication of dementia/senility, or you could find somebody to say so, sue. Unless, of course, there is any hope that your uncle will leave you something. Forget about it if he is religious or into issues. Basically, where money starts, family ends, end of story.
94 is a lot of years , your grandfather could be demented, or otherwise mentally challenged and could be easily influenced. I suggest talking with everybody he was in contact with for the last 5 years. If there is any indication of dementia/senility, or you could find somebody to say so, sue. Unless, of course, there is any hope that your uncle will leave you something. Forget about it if he is religious or into issues. Basically, where money starts, family ends, end of story.
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Re: Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
by PrestonSturges » Fri 07 Jan 2011, 01:24:38
The messsage to us was that we were on our own at 18, but the door was always open.
I think that as a result we were all much happier.
That being said, the people I know that are now affluent have gotten infusions of cash at critical times from wealthy parents.
I think that as a result we were all much happier.
That being said, the people I know that are now affluent have gotten infusions of cash at critical times from wealthy parents.
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Re: Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
by Sixstrings » Fri 07 Jan 2011, 01:26:40
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'Y')es, this happens all the time, like constantly. It's a shocker when family members steal from each other, but any time you get 4 or more people together, one of them will go on a financially driven psychotic rampage given a chance.
In my situation, I can't say my uncle "stole" from me. I knew my grandfather well enough to know my uncle was always his favorite of the two sons. It's possible my uncle encouraged him to make this decision, but I'd actually lean towards this really being my grandfather's wishes all on his own. Also, my grandpa was VERY sharp right up until he got sick two months before passing at 94. He was completely in control of his capacities, and my uncle isn't some lowlife he's very polite but neither is he going to get a sudden burst of altruism and "do the right thing" now that everything is his.
As a moral question, I wonder if I'm wrong to feel cheated? What I'm wondering is how most families handle this when there's a decent sized estate -- if one of the two sons pass before the elderly parent, is it common that everything is left to the surviving son even though if my father hadn't passed then 1/3 of his half would have eventually passed to me.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ld people become fearful and paranoid, and anyone can convince them that their families..
Ya that's not the case here, grandpa was very sharp.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you want to see the will it should be available as a public document.
It's in another state, so I can't just go to the courthouse. Last I heard, no will has been filed yet but something has been done regarding probate. I'm not a lawyer so I don't understand all this. I have a brother up there, so even if I don't hire a lawyer then at least my brother can get a copy of the will (if it ever gets filed, it's been over two months now I don't understand how it's not been filed). Not that it even matters now that the executor (my uncle) has told me my father's children get nothing.
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Re: Have any of you ever been cut out of a will?
by Sixstrings » Fri 07 Jan 2011, 01:43:37
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'Y')ou didn't mention whether your dad was older or younger? My guess is younger.
My father was younger than my uncle. The old will was set up 50/50. So apparently when my father passed (five years before my grandfather has passed), then the will was changed to just everything going to my uncle. I assume if the will hadn't been changed then me and my siblings would have a case in court.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Be carefull not to resent your grandfather for the wrong reasons. He may have just been following an old cultural norm. You didn't mention whether your dad was older or younger? My guess is younger.
It was never a close relationship. That's another issue here, that he was so emotionally distant through the years. He just never took an interest in his grandkids or great grandkids or great great grandkids. He was NOT the "grandfatherly" type. Having said that, I knew all this years ago and yet I'd still visit him up north and I'm glad we spent that time together. Even disinherited and thrown out with the trash, I wish we could have lived in the same area and spent more time together -- he really was remarkable, especially having all his mental faculties at advanced age.
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Why did he do that, it just hurts.
