[PrestonSturges]

I'd look at something with a large dory hull - rockered flat bottom for beaching, but can take rough water.

People paddle the Grand Canyon in dories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dKQQpA73SY

Check out these C-dories. Pretty spacious, draw less than a foot, not a deep water boat but far more seaworthy than a pontoon boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkQ5eCRX3r0

Check out the various St Pierre Dory videos, see how people can take them out on rough water or land on the beach. Good first time boat building project. No videos of sailing rigs.
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expI ... 80&bih=802

[SeaGypsy]

To loop this thread again...
Can there be any better investment in survival than travel?
Not airport hopping, but open ended, open hearted exploration of this blue planet?

So often on this site (which is about 85% US contributors) posters speak of being hemmed in by unsustainable population density. Then of the ease of access for 'Zombies' to doomstead suited areas.

Especially if you are from the northern hemisphere, the world looks damn crowded. The more civilized your home country, the more likely you feel this population pressure.

As 'westerners' we are programmed to believe the world is a dangerous place; far more dangerous than wherever we are from. We easily overlook our local crime, social breakdown, collective paranoia; by seeing a far worse 'reality' in other places (through the MSM). People starving and being kidnapped and insurrection/ rebellion, natural disasters, etc etc.

Then there is Reality.

The world is actually far safer to get around in/on than most people ever realise.
Every day people pack up their bags and go to far off exotic places and somehow almost always make it home. Thousands of people at any one time are cruising yachts of all shapes and sizes around the seas and oceans, bays, cays, rivers and canals.

These Argentinian friends of mine are now 7 years (and 4 children) into a journey around the world in a 1928 'Graham Paige' British classic car. Their children were all born in different countries. They live by selling books about their travels and doing media interviews. They have never paid any money to have their vintage car and themselves shipped from country to country. They have never had any problems in over 100 border crossings, many in 3rd world countries. Candelaria and Herman Zapp are very special, yet very ordinary people. We can all learn from them.

http://www.google.com.au/search?sourcei ... your+dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvfXg8X_Cw

When you get in the mode of travel at the grass roots level, things start to happen which you would never have imagined, to help you along your way. When I met Candelaria and Herman, they were on their way towards the Zamboanga Peninsula and were seeking advice as they went. I was able to introduce them to a military training team leader with 7 years experience fighting Moro in southern Mindanao. His advice matched doubts planted by the Argentine embassy, so they went via Palawan to Malaysia. That's how things happen when you travel. Human networking is as natural as breathing. Bad news about an area travels fast.

The cruising community is no myth. Everywhere you go people love to share their wisdom. The vast majority of the world is safe to travel with reasonable precautions. The best advice is from people who have lived or at least spent time in an area, not just a country.

The investment in self made by people like Annie, Trevor, Herman and Candelaria, is completely beyond anything material a person can buy. These people have truly found Home all over the world, not everywhere they go but in many many places.

Is there any use in having a bunker full of stuff in a place which don't feel like home?

[Newfie]

Preston,

Here is a heart breaker for ya. I was in St. Pierre a couple of years ago. I sailed over there from Sydney for Bastile Day celebrations.

They have all their famous little shacks lined up on the beach with the windlass' in front. But all open skiffs with outboards.

They had some 'contests' with folks, local folks, trying to do races: launch a dory, go out a few feet, pick something up, bring it back, pretend you are unloading some fish, storing the next, etc. It was funny, in a sad way. They couldn't do it. The young folks couldn't row a boat in a straight line, were totally clueless on what to do with the gear, etc.

A shocker I got last summer was reading a local paper and finding out the Rock imports something like 95% of their food. They fed a great good bit of Europe for a few hundred years. And now, in the last 50~60 years, it is gone.

I can't seem to do photo uploads, so I'll try to do a Photobucket link. ((http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/ ... %20Pierre/))

On a more hopeful note, here is a link to the Banford Design Group.

http://www.benford.us/dories/34.html

[SeaGypsy]

The guy who introduced me to ocean sailing in my teens would not let me hoist a sail until I could row a 12 ft dory with 2 passengers for several miles. He would make me sail or skull all day down a river to then sail all night rather than use an engine. He would go to sleep and leave me alone all night on deck, testing my resilience. I am bronze medallion trained as a surf life gaurd and have a lot of real life rescue experience, which helps, plus I never get seasick.

Sailing is not for everyone. I believe it's just in some people's DNA, probably a lot more people than ever do it. For those who do, there is no serenity of purpose or peace of mind greater than that of setting out to sea in a sturdy vessel with no engine noise, just the sounds of the hull moving through water, the wind through the rigging. The sense of freedom and collaboration with nature is divine.

[PrestonSturges]

"scull"

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '&')quot;scull"

[SeaGypsy]

Ooops, My Bad

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '.')........... no serenity of purpose or peace of mind greater than that of setting out to sea in a sturdy vessel with no engine noise, just the sounds of the hull moving through water, the wind through the rigging. The sense of freedom and collaboration with nature is divine.

[SeaGypsy]

Sometimes I think sailing off in search of god knows what is the adult equivalent of going out barefoot to paddle in the mud and just play. Playfull yet serious. Yet probably more children die playing in the mud than adults die sailing the seven seas and five oceans.

[Newfie]

Y'all might want to check out Cid's Runaway Global Warming thread.

He seems to think time is running pretty low.

On the upside, there isn't much prep to do.

[SeaGypsy]

Not much hope unless you have a greenhouse with solar powered cooling, heating, back up lights, which will feed the stomach and lungs. Very large elaborate greenhouse...

[Revi]

My nephew and our kid never had any choice but to learn to row. They could use the rowboats to get down harbor, which sure beats walking! My nephew ended up helping a rich guy learn how to use his boat, and learned a lot about navigation in the process. Some of these modern kids still learn something about the ocean. We all learned to sail, and get around on the ocean from the time we were young. It's the Viking way.

I realize that a lot of my friends have no idea about the ocean, though. One guy came out to our island and insisted on going kayaking alone. He said he wanted to see if the ocean would kill him. He took off and a squall came along. I was sent out to look for him and found him in the middle of it. We headed for shore, and were okay, but I think he learned what the ocean was capable of. His wife was freaking out, but I think since he lived it was a great thing to experience. He is much more cautious now.

[SeaGypsy]

I had a pretty crazy childhood. By the time I was 14 I was hitching to the surf most days after school and on weekends. We had a lot of wild surf coast where I grew up. One place we called Big Schanck we had to scramble down a 300 ft hill then jump off a rock ledge into the trench which would carry us out to the break. The place only worked when it was over 8 ft swells and was best at 10 to 12 ft. We would sit in giant bull kelp fields on the edge of the shelf and wait for giant waves. The break was a take off then 5 second full on barrel collapsing into deep water, meaning if you fell off you would be pushed into the trench, not smashed onto the rocks. Often there would only be 2 or 3 of us out there; miles from help, with no communications at all. I did nearly die a few times in the surf. But to this day I love nothing better than flying across the breaking face of an overhead wave. I will take the risks involved with surfing and sailing willingly until I die or am too weak to move, at which point I will take a permanent holiday.

[Revi]

I think kids need some natural force like the ocean or the wilderness to test themselves against. Something that is unyielding, so they can push against it and learn how the world works. We coddle them too much and they spend too much time on their games, which are nothing like the real world. There is a risk that they might hurt themselves when dealing with something like the ocean, but there's a risk that they might hurt themselves by being so sedentary as well. I'd rather live in the real world. I fell off a cliff as a kid and almost died. I think it was a good learning experience.

Kids and adults need to get out of their world of screens and experience the wind, waves and dirt again.