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Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

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Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Carlhole » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 04:57:34

Guardian

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')arvard scientists were surprised that they saw a dramatic reversal, not just a slowing down, of the ageing in mice. Now they believe they might be able to regenerate human organs


The scientists could not say whether or not longevity might be affected; only that senescent organs were rejuvenated in mice that had been genetically engineered to not produce telemerase.

Personally, I don't like the ageing process one single bit. And if I could live a more enduringly youthful life but voluntarily kirk-out at some reasonable lifespan, say, 80 or 85, I'd go for it.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 07:35:47

The key questions other than will it work on humans are, How much will it cost? and Who will be allowed to access it?
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Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 12:47:53

4-OHT is already used by weight-lifters. If it did anything significant, I think we would already know about it. It is also used to treat premenstral symptoms.

It's also been shown to reawaken dormant hair follicles.

There is a major downside. It greatly increases the risk of Colon Cancer. Also, as with any steroid, causes clouding of the cornea.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby steam_cannon » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 12:55:21

Telomeres are a hot topic. For example, some herbal buffs are using "astragalus root" hoping for anti-aging benifits and to boost immune function. Though it's hard to say how much benifit this kind of thing would have for healthy individuals; I've some people swear by it for preventing colds.

Astragalus, antiaging and telomeres
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..a chemical from the astragalus root, frequently used in Chinese herbal therapy, can prevent or slow this progressive telomere shortening...
...chemical they call TAT2 from astragalus and found that it did enhance telomerase activity and antiviral functions.

Chemical From Medicinal Plants May Be Used To Fight HIV
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 16:35:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')he key questions other than will it work on humans are, How much will it cost? and Who will be allowed to access it?


I'll address your questions.

Will it work on humans? Probably (90% confident)

Cost? Initially high, coming down fast. Price of doctor's visit and administered drugs, lab analysis, and ongoing drug therapy. The principal cost will be the drugs themselves due to capital investment by the Drug co's.

Who will be allowed to access it? There are no qualifications, as with most drugs. Insurance Co's will likely pay for it, as it is a form of gene therapy that will replace costlier operations and procedures.

These products are not made from rare South american trees that only grow in the wild.

Probably the riskiest part of the therapy will be the delivery of genes into a living genome. It will probably be accomplished with a modified HIV virus.

We're still aways off from implementing a consumer therapeutic, my guess is 5-6 years.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 16:43:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Chemical From Medicinal Plants May Be Used To Fight HIV


The idea of food promoting or supporting natural anti-aging processes is well established. But the idea that somewhere, someplace, some miracle "silver bullet" exists is a damn croc of shit.

Enhanced telomerase is already seen in exercise and meditation. Never a popular choice for people who believe that all cures and therapies come from the ingestion of some magical pill. Physical, rehabilitative exercise, ie. uncomfortable and painful "work". The secret of the monk's health is the result of mental work and discipline.

I personally will enjoy the burning lance plunging through the heart of Chinese medicine that modern molecular biology represents. Enough with the worldwide harvest of critters for the sake of a pseudoscience. Viagra saves African Rhinos.

Psuedoscience and placebo effect will still have many fans. Hey, its cheap.

I
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Oakley » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 16:43:42

Just what we need, longer living mice and men, as if 6.7 billion people are not already enough.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Carlhole » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 18:11:51

SH

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Harvard Scientists Reverse the Aging Process in Mice – Total Bullsh*t

According to those idiots over at the Guardian, “Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice – now for humans”. As if that were not miraculous enough, the Guardian also claims that “Now they believe they might be able to regenerate human organs”. Here at the Hub we would love nothing more than for this story to be true, but alas it is one of the hugest piles of sensationalist bullshit I have seen on the net in quite a while. The scientific research behind these sensationalist claims is completely ridiculous and the Guardian knows this. But they don’t give a damn because sensationalism sells – big time! The Guardian knows that sloppy, idiotic bloggers and news organizations across the web will regurgitate anything they see without hardly the slightest attempt at fact checking. And hence this bogus story has been an enormous hit. The story already has more than 15,000 Facebook likes and this number is sure to grow. It has been picked up and rehashed as a legitimate scientific story by major news outlets, including the Wall Street Journal, Digg, Endgadget, and many more. Congratulations to the Guardian and the author of the story, Ian Sample – you have created a story that sells well, but your reputation is utter crap.


Oops, looks like we're all gonna shrivel up and croak early... BAU. Nevermind.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 18:16:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')he key questions other than will it work on humans are, How much will it cost? and Who will be allowed to access it?


I'll address your questions.

Will it work on humans? Probably (90% confident)

Cost? Initially high, coming down fast. Price of doctor's visit and administered drugs, lab analysis, and ongoing drug therapy. The principal cost will be the drugs themselves due to capital investment by the Drug co's.

Who will be allowed to access it? There are no qualifications, as with most drugs. Insurance Co's will likely pay for it, as it is a form of gene therapy that will replace costlier operations and procedures.

These products are not made from rare South american trees that only grow in the wild.

Probably the riskiest part of the therapy will be the delivery of genes into a living genome. It will probably be accomplished with a modified HIV virus.

We're still aways off from implementing a consumer therapeutic, my guess is 5-6 years.


Is this spitballing, or do you actually have reliable sources / insider insight into the science behind this?

How about risks / side effects? How much testing of something like this would be needed before we'd have some intelligent assessment of the risks of things like cancer or any number of things caused by metabolic changes?

How do we ethically test that? Give it to hordes of nursing home volunteers, and hope they become healthy 30 or 50 year olds? Assuming it's not that easy, wouldn't determining long term effects take a LONG time?

How do you know this can replace other procedures? Will this fix a bad heart or liver by making it younger? Or are you presuming that the anti-aging will prevent (or delay) many such problems?

. . .

This kind of thing sounds GREAT medically if it works reliably. If it just improves the quality of life, that's super.

If it actually greatly improves longevity, then the can of social, cost, and constraint worms THAT opens up gives one pause.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 01 Dec 2010, 10:10:51

I'd rather leave this physical body and return back to the source as a eternal light being. :)
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 01 Dec 2010, 10:41:58

but then that wont be you. You , v-m,wont be ever again.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 01 Dec 2010, 11:11:45

Yes, ego consciousness will die.

You poor ppl that cling to the the 3D hologram here on Planet Earth

You've seen your birth, your life and death. You might recall all the rest. Did you have a good world when you died? Enough to base a movie on?

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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby Narz » Wed 01 Dec 2010, 13:54:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'P')ersonally, I don't like the ageing process one single bit.

Me neither.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Wed 01 Dec 2010, 23:07:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'm')y guess is 5-6 years.

so if I can only hang on for five more years, then I am good to go?

Will I age backwards or will I be stuck with the paunch I have now?


You will age backwards. The paunch is history, too, if you want it.

I think immortality will be a good thing. Death and fear of death is the driver of so much hopelessness and inaction- in positive directions. People spend their lives recklessly because there is conceived to be a limit on things. These reckless decisions are based on primal fear produced by moments of panic. People don't value the Earth because it is just a backdrop sailing by. If people had to live in the world they were involved in creating, I think you would see an increase in thoughtful and responsible use.

Also, the great tragedy of death is the destruction of wisdom, skills, and knowledge in the form of minds. Reversing senescence would create whole new categories of human being we have never had before: a person with the wisdom of 125 years without the fogginess of neurological degeneration, for example. These people would be a tremendous source of help to humankind.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 01 Dec 2010, 23:52:05

The other question is what's been turning off the telomerase gene?

There must be some signal shutting it off across the body, some hormone, or rather some protein. probably when the hormones activate genes at puberty, one of those genes makes a protein that turns off telomerase.

So that raises the possibility of a drug that will inhibit the inhitor protein (not an uncommon strategy), thus turning on the telomerase gene.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 00:13:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '4')-OHT is already used by weight-lifters. If it did anything significant, I think we would already know about it. It is also used to treat premenstral symptoms.
It's also been shown to reawaken dormant hair follicles.
There is a major downside. It greatly increases the risk of Colon Cancer. Also, as with any steroid, causes clouding of the cornea.

And yet being old and running low on telomerase doesn't protect anyone from colon cancer, so go figure.
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Re: Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 00:52:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Is this spitballing, or do you actually have reliable sources / insider insight into the science behind this?


No, I just know. Trust me.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')How about risks / side effects? How much testing of something like this would be needed before we'd have some intelligent assessment of the risks of things like cancer or any number of things caused by metabolic changes?


What the research shows is that telomerase helps DNA from being damaged. Everyone already expresses telomerase. Your unusually long lifespan as a human being is testament to its effect.

The expression of telomerase tends to fall over time. Eventually the telomerase isn't around in sufficient quantities to fix all the errors. They mount with every new cell division and dysfunction proceeds- your DNA gets shorter and shorter. Depending on the tissue you get different effects, all bad. Think Cancer. Think Birth defects. Dementia. So, a reinvigoration of telomerase would step in and top off the tank. The easiest way to do that would splice some new DNA into your existing DNA. A great way to do with is with a modified HIV virus (with all the bad parts taken out). This modified HIV would infect you, only instead of inserting bad viral DNA into your DNA, if would insert some new telomerase code, and voila, you're making telomerase again.

Why does telomerase expression fall over time? That is another good question. I think all the clues are there. Take a small child, lock him in a room for 12 years and beat him senseless, and he will likely have shortened telomeres. Monk sits on hillside meditating, improves telomerase function. It is all, I think, a throwback to ancient evolutionary heritage when we were all just multicelled protoplasms bumping up against each other. Individual cells had to know when to die for the group. Today, we are just bigger bags of cells, each having its own little "time to die" liquefaction factor.

Its also a consequence of having double-stranded DNA as opposed to our single-strand competitors (the bacteria). They evolved the opposite strategy of reproducing fast, a few mistakes, no big deal while we have lots of error-correcting functions.

Big bonus now is that we know what is going on a little better. Is it so sensational to ruminate on what we can accomplish by bringing in foreign DNA to our own? For example, we find an organism somewhere, it has a novel DNA repair mechanism. We modify virus, we incorporate DNA. Presto-life extension. Whats the problem? Too much UV light? Can't tolerate modern pollution? Cancer got'cha down? Some bug somewhere is already kicking its ass.

This is why we want to make very sure we don't destroy all life on Earth. Those organisms have genes we'd like to add to our own collection.

There are a few ways a protein's expression can be limited. One is an inhibitor of some kind preventing expression. The other possibility is that expression subsides because of some other function. This can occur due to physical damage. Since telomeres are only really critical in dividing cells, the stem cells are really the only important cells to look at.

Personally, since across the animal kingdom the problem of telomere shortening occurs, it is conserved, genetically, and serves the biologic imperative of evolution. In other words, it proves evolution loves species at the expense of individuals.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')How do we ethically test that? Give it to hordes of nursing home volunteers, and hope they become healthy 30 or 50 year olds? Assuming it's not that easy, wouldn't determining long term effects take a LONG time?


Well, it really depends on whether or not we want government telling us what we can and can't do to our bodies. Volunteers for medical research, yes, that works. Long term effects shouldn't be a big deal. There are things we don't understand, but there is no reason to fear anyone's having cells that express telomerase. Gene therapies eventually progress to augmenting or replacing deficiencies in producing all sorts of normal, natural proteins.

I'd say there is a very low likelihood of side effects for other reasons related to the structure of DNA.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')How do you know this can replace other procedures? Will this fix a bad heart or liver by making it younger? Or are you presuming that the anti-aging will prevent (or delay) many such problems?


Yes, all of the above. In terms of the heart muscle, you have heart cells dying and being created all the time. If telomeres get too short, you have cells that don't make viable reproductions; these become weakened parts of the heart muscle, leading to catastrophic failure (stroke). The typical regimen at present would be, I imagine, something like a blood thinner to ease the burden on the heart muscle.

The research with the rats seems to indicate that a person with immanent heart problems of this cause could see a return to more normal function, obviating the use of the drugs, which have side effects.

The way I see it, these therapies can be used (probably will be in the coming medicare/socialist republic) prophylactically to prevent problems before they occur and as cures for conditions that arise. Plus, if you get it in early enough before a person reproduces, you won't have to go in and administer to the next generation- the normal process of cell divisions will take care of it. It would probably be normally administered like a booster shot when a child is around 8 or 9 years old..........

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')This kind of thing sounds GREAT medically if it works reliably. If it just improves the quality of life, that's super.


Sure did for those mice.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')If it actually greatly improves longevity, then the can of social, cost, and constraint worms THAT opens up gives one pause.

I don't think it is anything to fear, in fact, I think more and more that it is absolutely necessary to genetically enhance humanity as much as possible. We need to evolve.

Any new problems that are going to arise are just the long, tiresome history of humankind being insecure and needful of banal certainties. I'm sure there will be the standard crew of morons and idiots screaming their sanctimonious objections.
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