[Oakley]

A normal distribution places ~68% of the population within 1 standard deviation of the mean, and ~95% within 2 standard deviations. That leaves only 2 1/2% at each end of the curve beyond 3 standard deviations.

If we had a normal distribution of wealth, the middle class would be that 68% of the population, and those between 1 and 2 standard deviations would be the lower middle class on the negative side and the upper middle class on the positive side, each equal to 13.5% of the population. Only 2 1/2% of the population would live in poverty and 2 1/2% would possess unusual wealth. But clearly we do not have a normal distribution of wealth.

We have a skewed distribution, and one that is becoming increasingly skewed with the passage of time. An abnormal number of people live in poverty and the middle class is disappearing; the old saying about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer seems to apply. This has not always been the case in the US, which historically had a large middle class, but it is common in banana republics where a dictatorial government grants privilege to a small portion of the population and keeps the majority essentially as slaves.

My assessment is that it the economic collusion of government and privileged interest in the US, fascism, which is causing the redistribution of wealth out of the pockets of the majority, into the pockets of those favored by government policies and laws. This is the consequence of destruction of free markets. Free markets give us an even playing field, but instead of using the power of government to keep the field even, politicians have sold out to special interests and created laws that allow both big interests and government to plunder and control the majority. This has been going on a long time, but almost since the inception of the USA in 1781 we have also experienced increased economic output which has helped improve the standard of living of everyone, even though those in power have consistently directed a greater share of the increase to themselves and their friends. The privilege granted to banks to create money out of thin air and loan it out at interest is probably the greatest of these scams to deprive the masses of what they produce.

So here we are with a seriously skewed distribution of wealth. If the industrial age could be kept producing more and more as it has over the past 200+ years, then the system would continue to be accepted by the masses since their standard of living would be improving and the pain of fighting back against the inequities of plunder and control would exceed the pain of just going along with it. But we know this is about to change as output from the industrial age contracts for want of energy to fuel it. Of course those in power do not wish to see their own standard of living fall, so they must take a greater percentage of the pie just to maintain their position. This places a disproportionate share of the contraction on the masses. Notice how government is doing everything it can today to help Wall Street by burdening the majority with huge new debt and higher taxes.

We are fast approaching the "revolution point", the point at which the pain of revolution for the majority is less than the pain that comes from continuing with the system of plunder and control.

My view is that this will be a particularly brutal struggle because it is superimposed on the very struggle to be a survivor of the population crash that will come from energy collapse. Just imagine what a halving of the economy would do to your own life, and realize that a 5% decline in oil production could easily produce that over just 14 years. I don't know of any plans by any group to revolt; I suspect that it will just happen, slowly at first followed by a spiral of increased repression and increased revolt. If I had to guess a timetable I would look at the ideas presented in "The Fourth Turning" which places the outbreak of violence somewhere around 2015 - 2020.

Of course, restoring freedom will not eliminate the energy problem or avert the population implosion; but, it would determine who has a better chance of survival, those who produce some wealth, or those who plunder that wealth.

[PrestonSturges]

America's angry mall shoppers don't fantasize about killing the rich, they fantasize about killing the poor. Nobody buys an AK planning to march on a gated community, they buy it to shoot the guy who couldn't afford an AK.

Killing the poor seems to be popular with military juntas, if that's any indicator of how things might go for us.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote(' ', '
')Killing the poor seems to be popular with military juntas, if that's any indicator of how things might go for us.

[Shar_Lamagne]

I can find no support for your statement and you provided no link. I did find this though.

UNESCO hails Venezuela's leading role in illiteracy reduction
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')NESCO has acknowledged Venezuela's leadership among Latin American and Caribbean countries in reducing illiteracy, local media said Monday.

According to UNESCO, Venezuela has helped about 95.2 percent, or 30 million people, of its population shake off illiteracy in just 10 years.

UNESCO said in a report published on Monday that Venezuela has fulfilled, in a shorter time than expected, the goals of the Education for All program, established at the World Education Forum in Dakar, Senegal, in 2000.

Countries present at the forum have committed to achieve a 50 percent improvement in levels of adult literacy by 2015.

Venezuela has already reached and even surpassed the goal, by helping more than 1.679 million people get rid of illiteracy, said UNESCO.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shar_Lamagne', 'I') can find no support for your statement and you provided no link.

[Shar_Lamagne]

It was published by El Nacional, the right wing smear rag, and police claim it is not recent but from 2006.

What does this have to do with the topic of this thread. Just trying to change the subject?

[Shar_Lamagne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he only people that matter are in the Social Register. Trust me. That's how it works.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Social Register, is released annually as a single national directory, published in winter and summer editions from New York by Forbes magazine. Those aspiring to be listed must be sponsored by at least five individuals currently appearing in its pages. Those sponsored are reviewed by an Advisory Committee that has the final decision; about five percent of suggested names are added each year. The Committee also arrives at additions on its own and sends the potential listees "blanks"—forms to fill in information.

[SeaGypsy]

It occured to me in late 2006 that I was working very long hours treading water in Australia. I was earning 50 to 100k and really seeing nothing for it.
I decided to migrate to Asia.

A year later, I met and later married my Philipina wife.
I then completely changed careers; from arts management to aged/ disability nursing, with the only commonality being that I was still working with remote aboriginal people using language and cultural skills gained in my childhood.
Since then I have managed to spend a bit more than half the time at home in a beautifull provincial town near the beach in the northern Phiippines.

I have about 100 or so expat connections here; American, Canadian, Swedish, German, British, Italian, French, New Zealander and Australian.
The biggest contingent is ex US servicemen on various military pensions.
There are several other nationalities here on pensions, but surprisingly nearly half still work. Among these are: emergency medical specialists/ evacuation specialists/ medical imaging technician/ nuclear scientist/ able seamen/ various miners/ builders and salvage specialists. One guy delivers sailing yachts around south east Asia, works 2 months a year. All of these people spend about half their time at home here.

Amongst various connections I have heard that expatism is catching on around the world. Europeans are moving to the south, Australians to the north, Americans all over the world. Are all these people insane sex tourist druggies? Or is there some sense in the move?

Here I will give you the numbers on what $1000 a month will get you:

$150/ rent modest 2 bedroom cottage in safe area near beach/ town.
$25/ electricity without airconditioning/ multiply to your intelligence.
$25/ Broadband/ unlimited.
$100 plus keep/ full time helper/ driver/ nanny etc.
$400 food/ eating fresh/ cooking at home.
Leaving $300 where an ice cold beer at a beachfront bar costs $1 a haircut $1 a new shirt $4 jeans $5 etc etc.

The formula is simple.
You need either a job which will accomodate you whilst at work or where you can stay very cheaply nearby. The industries I have already mentions commonly accomodate people as part of the conditions of employment. You need to be in a high demand profession and be very flexible about where and when you work. The point is when you go to work you just work and save as much as possible. If this means sleeping in a van next to the cannery each Alaska salmon run, that is what you do.

Otherwise if you have a pension fund or cash/ liquid assets, it is doable to live on $1000 a month. This is true for many other parts of the world besides the Philippines.

Me personally, I find it hard to understand why so many people are satisfied to stay in some dead ass position watching the world turn to s#!t around them.
I would literally do any job on earth anywhere on earth half the year then do as I like the other half of my life than be stuck in a rut full time. Living on a service pension in some death trap when there are a million places in the world you can live like nobility.

[FairMaiden]

No offense - but what a dumb post. What works for you, works for you. It doesn't and won't for others. I have no desire to move to some impoverished country where I don't speak the language and I don't know a soul. I live in the greatest place on earth (that's our catch phrase if you missed it). I don't have cold winters - but the ski hill is 10 mins away. I can 2 blocks and throw a kayak in the ocean. I have oodles of mtn biking/walking trails on my doorstep. If you aren't outdoorsy and don't like that stuff, you might not appreciate it. My 9-5 job rocks - I get 3 day weekends every weekend, 6 weeks holidays and good pay. The ppl are fantastic and the job is not stressful at all. If my child is sick, I get paid a "family day". So no stress and lots of security. That's the trade off security. Before you claim I don't have it - I have an essential service job so it's more secure than most. Plus I have many skills. And the most important reason for staying here...wait for it...FAMILY...that's right, my sister, brother, neices, nephews, inlaws, etc aren't pulling up stakes for some foreign land. I love 'em and I'm sticking with them. The family vacations every year are a blast and we are doing them as long as we can.

[SeaGypsy]

No offense taken, you have spoken for the smugly comfortable everywhere, I thank you for it.

Others reading might not be so snuggly safe and warm in their forclosed homes and cardboard boxes/ sleeping in a car etc. or just living in dirtsville.

I started alone here, I married into a family far more functional, if poorer materially than the one I came from which broke up nearly 30 years ago.

I am personally aware of and friends with 2 posters here who have come from broken homes, gone to the gutter and got themselves on their feet again. I have no idea how many disfunctional lives are being lived by regular lurkers occaisional posters on this site.

I wrote the thread as an invitation and celebration of new possibility and new life for the currently or soon to be disenfranchised; not for the snuggly wuggly bundled up in lots of familiar cotton wool people.

[Blacksmith]

I live in a cold climate, work ocasionally, and live modestly. I am 3 year above retirement age, in resonably good health and am happy. Whatever your choise be happy.

[SeaGypsy]

Be happy and don't take offense when something outside your comfort zone is put as an option.

Maybe I project this, we do tend to see the world from our own angle; but I do believe a lot of people would be much more mobile if they had any idea how safely they could be so.

How many times I meet people with dreams of travel, beyond mere tourism, who have a bundle of excuses why not. These are usually based on presumption, rumour and thin air.

Personally I find once over initial culture shock, most places feel freer, more alive and vibrant, more human than the western countries I grew up in.
I enjoy the challenge of being a part of a tiny minority, whether in aboriginal Australia or provincial Asia.

To be honest I find western life very sterile and boring having the choice now.
My sense of time passing is very acute, I find time slips by too fast in a mundane routine. I guess that is my character.

[eastbay]

Thanks for the thread idea! We too are considering such a move.

Uruguay, which is about the size and population of Oregon, is one country that is slowly gaining in popularity as a retirement destination and it's the country we're looking at.

To get permanent residency all one needs is a clear police record from your home country and a minimum of $500/mo income. All money earned outside Uruguay is not taxed therefore one's pensions, SS, IRA/401k and whatever else reaches your mailbox is 100% free from income tax.

Rent is much less than in North America or Europe and there is a socialized medical care system and those with permanent residency can access it for a nominal fee. The drinking water is safe, the weather is just right, the US dollar passes freely, and the crime rate is fairly low.

Although it produces almost no oil, as a heavily agricultural nation it should be a fairly decent place to live in the approaching post oil era.

[SeaGypsy]

Thanks eastbay!
Yes Uruguay is one of the places I have heard becoming popular enough with expats that you won't be the only one around, but still very affordable. I heard the food there is particularly good for variety and freshness as well as extremely good value. Similar tax free concessions for offshore earnings exist in several other countries including the Philippines. Visa conditions sound really generous there in Uruguay, probably the best I have heard of.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'T')hanks for the thread idea! We too are considering such a move.

Uruguay, which is about the size and population of Oregon, is one country that is slowly gaining in popularity as a retirement destination and it's the country we're looking at.

To get permanent residency all one needs is a clear police record from your home country and a minimum of $500/mo income. All money earned outside Uruguay is not taxed therefore one's pensions, SS, IRA/401k and whatever else reaches your mailbox is 100% free from income tax.

Rent is much less than in North America or Europe and there is a socialized medical care system and those with permanent residency can access it for a nominal fee. The drinking water is safe, the weather is just right, the US dollar passes freely, and the crime rate is fairly low.

Although it produces almost no oil, as a heavily agricultural nation it should be a fairly decent place to live in the approaching post oil era.

[Crazy_Dad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')I am personally aware of and friends with 2 posters here who have come from broken homes, gone to the gutter and got themselves on their feet again. I have no idea how many disfunctional lives are being lived by regular lurkers occaisional posters on this site.

I wrote the thread as an invitation and celebration of new possibility and new life for the currently or soon to be disenfranchised; not for the snuggly wuggly bundled up in lots of familiar cotton wool people.

[SeaGypsy]

One of the biggest adjustments to make after the initial "OMG things were this cheap back home in 1972!" is dealing with corrupt officialdom.

It is important to be in an area with a fairly long and positive relationship with other nationals. Get used to living by a few simple principles: no road rage, no embarassing shop staff or drivers, after dark don't stop nomatter who tries to stop you and it is easier to get forgiveness than permission.

There will be at least 3 fees involved in any important transaction; the most important one the government knows nothing about even when it is their office taking the money. But it is still cheaper than supporting the legal leechdom imposed on taxpayers in 1st world countries. Most of the time it is safer too; one thing is for sure, when you hire security here you get good cheap. My local police seargent will drive me in uniform with his gun and badge on a workday to Manila, wait all day and drive me home for $20.
You just can't get service like that anymore!

[SeaGypsy]

Hey Crazy Dad!
Yeah, I know it, can't do it.
My wife has Australian residency, which I made sure of in case a SHTF scenario were to reduce our options somehat. She came to Darwin for 2 months and hated it; too hot, unfriendly, expensive, pathetic childcare, all the old and young tucked away in institutions. Not for her. Me neither until push comes shove. We have our second bub coming soon, will be dual national like the 1st.
Because of the wonderfull social system in Australia and my cost of living here in Asia, I will only have to work 4 months this year. When we return to work once the children are a bit bigger it will be living on a yacht tied up at the closest convenient port to wherever the money is for as long as it takes to get out withat least 6 months rations. Should be able to work both of us 3 to 4 months a year and do fine. The children are effectively being raised by their granmother/s who are multilingual and in their early 50's. They will stay here until they reach school age assuming nothing drastic has to happen beforehand.

[Crazy_Dad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'H')ey Crazy Dad!
Yeah, I know it, can't do it.
My wife has Australian residency, which I made sure of in case a SHTF scenario were to reduce our options somehat. She came to Darwin for 2 months and hated it; too hot, unfriendly, expensive, pathetic childcare, all the old and young tucked away in institutions. Not for her. Me neither until push comes shove. We have our second bub coming soon, will be dual national like the 1st.
Because of the wonderfull social system in Australia and my cost of living here in Asia, I will only have to work 4 months this year. When we return to work once the children are a bit bigger it will be living on a yacht tied up at the closest convenient port to wherever the money is for as long as it takes to get out withat least 6 months rations. Should be able to work both of us 3 to 4 months a year and do fine. The children are effectively being raised by their granmother/s who are multilingual and in their early 50's. They will stay here until they reach school age assuming nothing drastic has to happen beforehand.

[SeaGypsy]

Well sometimes you just get stuck.
Sounds like you want to go mining? Understandable when truck drivers clear $2000 a week net. PM me I will give you the name of the fastest growing mining manpower company in the far north; these guys hire anyone who can pass the medical and police clearance. They pay less than they should but have got thousands of guys started.

As to the clouds, yes well we might all run out of air to breath before we run out of oil, but besides that there is still a lot of digging to be done in the world's largest man made lake and a lot of demand for what comes out.
Of slave nations, Australia is the luckiest.