[Dreamtwister]

Yeah, let's put the Republicans back in power. That will make things so much better!

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'S')o, republicans win the house, and in two years, maybe the presidency.

Like the dog who caught the car, what do they do with it now?

[efarmer]

We are on the undulating plateau of peak petroleum, it is the part of the cheap energy ride where supply and demand, the cost of infrastructure for new supply versus the market price during bouts of demand destruction, and a ream of other factors including market speculators tweak the curve up and down to drive the undulating results into reality. So too it is with our politics, the Liberal and Conservative notions we adopted in the era when human initiative and consensus were more important than resource availability are being grasped and dumped in an undulating cycle by people looking for a way to make the economic conditions firm up under their feet again.

If it is known anywhere, it is known on this site, that it is well past time for more people to obtain a clearer picture of where we actually are in terms of energy resources and their economic purchase in a society that was founded and flourished on cheap oil. And right after this intellectual tsunami breaks on the shore of consciousness and runs it's mental and emotional course and begins to yield the inevitable question of what to do about the situation, we need to seriously hunker down as a nation and in all nations based on the petroleum exploit and adopt consensus plans and responses and move on them.

Until that time, we can pretend we are facing issues of Liberal and Conservative doctrine and yo yo elected people in and out of offices that simply are not involved in addressing the real underlying issue of our time for us to address. In the twilight of the consumption, exploit, generation that I am a part of, it is time for us to pivot to grasping and grappling with resource limits and to attempt to place those who follow behind us in time, into a situation that has the best chances of sustaining them.

Until then politically, we will continue to swap dirty underwear in red and blue colors on and off of the body politic.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', ''')Dems had to know they were going to lose no matter what they did, I just wish they had done something...

[PrestonSturges]

It will be interesting to see the Tea Party members kneel to their new corporate masters.

On the other hand, I think their level of commitment is (as LBJ put it) "thin as piss on a rock."

Prediction of GOP civil war may be overblown because the Tea Party may simply evaporate without the corporate backing.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', ' ')it is time for us to pivot to grasping and grappling with resource limits and to attempt to place those who follow behind us in time, into a situation that has the best chances of sustaining them.

[efarmer]

Hard to say how many throw the bums out and put the newbies in cycles it will take before people realize it is useless and are open to reality based approaches Ludi. I don't pretend much and therefore do not expect the politics to change much until people realize that what we are doing is a futile exercise and therefore become open to the exploratorium it is going to take.

So far as Republican or Democrat policies are concerned, we aren't going anywhere until we match our ideas to the world as it is instead of attempting to match the world to our ideas by brute force and kicking the can down the road to nowhere.

[Ludi]

Efarmer, what about the idea of full person-hood for women and contraception available to all who need it is not matched to the world as it is?

BTW, full person-hood for women and contraception available to all is a DEMOCRATIC policy position, not a Republican one.

What ARE these "reality-based approaches" you're talking about? You keep posting these kind of lectures about how politics is futile (trying to discourage voting so Reps will get in power? ) but you don't seem to be starting ANY threads about reality-based approaches or what we should be doing instead of partisan politics. Seriously. Could you start some threads in the Planning Forum about what you think we should be doing? Or will you just keep coming in to political threads and telling us politics is useless?

<<<< slightly irritated

[efarmer]

You are aware of resource limits and climate issues Ludi. Most people are either not or they are convinced they are trumped up diversions or schemes, which in some cases they sometimes are. I don't have any idea what to write in the planning forum because my belief is that the discomfort of life not working correctly for enough people will eventually cure the politics that they are able to avail themselves of and use to implement plans and actions. This will happen as the consequences themselves drive behaviors and not in response to people simply preaching the message to them (until they are ready to open their minds to consideration of alternative realities).

In the meantime I have folks who depend on me to eat and be educated and this is where my focus needs to be. I am positive about the outcome, but I realize that it takes a large number of people to suffer negative consequences before they are open to learn and vote for the sort of things that will start the process of transition.

[Cog]

Ludi thinks politics matter on stopping or limiting the damage that Peak Oil is going to do to the social fabric. He could not be more wrong. It makes no practical difference whether the Republicans win or lose the Congress tomorrow. Or the presidency in 2012.

[Cid_Yama]

Nonsense. If the Republicans win, the average American will be kicked to the gutter.

Their greed decimated the world economy. To the point that worldwide shipping stopped.

Then they have the gall to tell the unemployed that they are just lazy bums, and that if they really wanted a job they'ld be willing to mine coal for $1.50 hr, with no regulation of the industry.

Republican policies are pure evil as to their effect on the average American.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', ' ')This will happen as the consequences themselves drive behaviors and not in response to people simply preaching the message to them (until they are ready to open their minds to consideration of alternative realities).

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', ' ')if they really wanted a job they'ld be willing to mine coal for $1.50 hr, with no regulation of the industry.

[Lore]

Somehow it has now become un-American to want to earn more then average Chinese wages, let alone organize for workers benefits while corporate moguls can collude all day. There is a last laugh here, although I don’t know who will be around to give it. The new conservative politics and corporate greed is winning a race to the bottom.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', 'H')ard to say how many throw the bums out and put the newbies in cycles it will take before people realize it is useless

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'S')o, republicans win the house, and in two years, maybe the presidency.

Like the dog who caught the car, what do they do with it now?

[vtsnowedin]

It will be interesting to say the least. With a 48 -52 split in the senate any veto by President Obama will be upheld so a Republican dominated house might as well not pass a lot of far right pipe dreams. It will just be a waste of time. Even on must- have bills compromises will have to be reached or they will get to relearn the lesson Newt learned about shutting down the government. I wonder if their is a new Monica waiting in the intern pool?
I cant' wait to start counting the votes tonight, not that Vermont is in play for anything other then Governor.

[Mesuge]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', ' ')I am positive about the outcome, but I realize that it takes a large number of people to suffer negative consequences before they are open to learn and vote for the sort of things that will start the process of transition.

[Ludi]

Seems pretty damn evil to want to strip people of their rights and protections just to "get it over faster." All very well and fine if it isn't your rights that are going to be destroyed. You have nothing to lose (I guess) so you don't care if anyone else has.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '8')) It will be interesting to say the least. With a 48 -52 split in the senate any veto by President Obama will be upheld so a Republican dominated house might as well not pass a lot of far right pipe dreams. It will just be a waste of time.