What I find interesting is the amount of local poor, or lower middle class residents that consider themselves middle class, while the many of the people I consider upper middle class call themselves middle class as well.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lmost all Americans consider themselves middle class. In the Pew survey, 53 percent put themselves in the "middle class" and 19 percent each in the "upper middle" and "lower middle" classes. But the prevalence of middle-class ambitions and values creates a vexing contradiction: The advances in living standards that Americans expect require a flexible and competitive economy that weakens the security and stability that Americans also expect.
PeakOil is You
THE Middle Class Thread (merged)
Re: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Wiped
by MarkJ » Sat 24 Jul 2010, 09:41:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he more interesting data in the study, though, is on those who consider themselves middle class. Forty percent of Americans with incomes below $20,000 say they are middle class, as well as a third of people with incomes above $150,000. That's a mighty big middle. There are also interesting race distinctions: 50 percent of African Americans, 54 percent of Latinos, and 53 percent of whites say they are middle class, but members of minority groups who classify themselves as middle class have far less income. For whites, the median income of those who self-identified as middle class was $56,295. For blacks, it was $46,849, and for Latinos, it was $39,363.
Lifestyles of much of the local middle class if off the hook.. 2,000 plus sq/ft homes, 3/4/5 vehicles, boats, waverunners, marina dock rental, motorcycles, snowmobiles, multiple computers, digital cable, digital phone, multiple cell phone voice/text/data plans, high speed internet, central A/C, huge entertainment budgets, huge electric bills, large vehicle/toy gas bills etc.
It often takes 2 plus full-time incomes, rental incomes, incomes from second jobs, part-time side businesses etc to maintain these lifestyles.
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Re: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Wiped
by Oakley » Sat 24 Jul 2010, 11:59:48
Remember the bell curve. A normal distribution of wealth would be a bell curve; this would mean there was a large middle class; only those beyond three standard deviations on either end of the curve would be in poverty or have extreme wealth.
But what you describe is a skewed distribution, not a normal distribution. You describe few with extreme wealth and the overwhelming majority in poverty; few are in the middle.
Now think of where skewed distributions traditionally exist. One would be a typical dictator ruled banana republic where the dictator controls the economy and keeps the majority of the population as serfs, while his friends and he own most of the wealth and live lavishly. Another would be a pre Civil War Southern plantation. The owner and his family lived in comfort, the slaves did the work and lived in poverty, and there might have been a few hired overseers (the middle class).
My point is that when you see a skewed distribution of wealth, you are seeing the effect of a slave system. In the case of the US, you are seeing a version of slavery knows as fascism; the merger of the powers of the state, of large corporations, and of wealthy individuals. In effect the power elite, with their wealth take control of the politicians, and the politicians then pass laws that give economic advantage to the power elite and themselves. The result is an uneven economic playing field and a shift of wealth out of the pockets of the majority into the pockets of the few. This is not capitalism or socialism, this is fascism.
The solution is to do away with the laws that create the uneven playing field, and replace them with laws that insure that nobody is given advantage. For example, the various banking laws, both at the federal and state level grant the privilege to banks to create money out of thin air (checking account balances) and loan it out at interest. This is a huge benefit to banks at the expense of the public, both because it gives them a large interest income paid to them by the public, and because it devalues the value of money as more and more is created, effectively stealing from savers and those with fixed incomes. The solution is to do what the US Constitution requires (Congress coin money and the States allow nothing but gold and silver coins to be legal tender). If laws required banks keep 100% reserves against their deposits, then they could not create money out of thin air. Another example would be to do away with licensing laws which limit competition and ensure that those with licenses have an economic advantage. Instead of licensing drugs, hospitals, doctors, lawyers, cable companies, taxi cabs, plumbers, etc., (all government management) rely upon competition, private certifications, consumer reports, consumer assessment, research and judgment, and redress in court.
No system will work 100%, so no matter which we have, there will be some damage. It is a matter of which system produces the least damage, and history shows that slave systems like fascism and socialism produce much more damage to the majority than does a system of freedom and free markets. If people understood that what we have now is fascism instead of blaming free markets, then we might actually have a chance to improve our living conditions, but so many people blame freedom and clamor for more government interference in the economy, not less, and as a result, the damage keeps increasing.
As the economy contracts (partly the collapse of the debt based monetary system, and partly less production because of less energy), you can already see those in power using government to maintain their position, for example, the bailout of Wall Street at the expense of the general public. Those in power are using government to shift the burden of the contraction onto the shoulders of the many, thus accelerating the movement out of the middle class into poverty. In my view, the end result will be civil war, perhaps within the next 15 years. There will likely be three factions; (1)those who are in power and want the plunder and control to continue (fascists like Bush and Obama and the majority of Republicans and Democrats); (2)those out of power who want the plunder and control to continue, but want the benefits of this to go to the majority (socialism); and (3) those out of power who want to end the plunder and control (libertarians).
I don't have a clue as to the outcome. Overall, for the human race, maybe it doesn't matter all that much anyway since no system is likely to avert the die-off that is coming. But the political and economic system we have certainly does affect who among us will survive and who will perish. If you are being plundered and controlled by government and special interests, then you have a lesser chance or survival, and those plundering and controlling you have a greater chance.
But what you describe is a skewed distribution, not a normal distribution. You describe few with extreme wealth and the overwhelming majority in poverty; few are in the middle.
Now think of where skewed distributions traditionally exist. One would be a typical dictator ruled banana republic where the dictator controls the economy and keeps the majority of the population as serfs, while his friends and he own most of the wealth and live lavishly. Another would be a pre Civil War Southern plantation. The owner and his family lived in comfort, the slaves did the work and lived in poverty, and there might have been a few hired overseers (the middle class).
My point is that when you see a skewed distribution of wealth, you are seeing the effect of a slave system. In the case of the US, you are seeing a version of slavery knows as fascism; the merger of the powers of the state, of large corporations, and of wealthy individuals. In effect the power elite, with their wealth take control of the politicians, and the politicians then pass laws that give economic advantage to the power elite and themselves. The result is an uneven economic playing field and a shift of wealth out of the pockets of the majority into the pockets of the few. This is not capitalism or socialism, this is fascism.
The solution is to do away with the laws that create the uneven playing field, and replace them with laws that insure that nobody is given advantage. For example, the various banking laws, both at the federal and state level grant the privilege to banks to create money out of thin air (checking account balances) and loan it out at interest. This is a huge benefit to banks at the expense of the public, both because it gives them a large interest income paid to them by the public, and because it devalues the value of money as more and more is created, effectively stealing from savers and those with fixed incomes. The solution is to do what the US Constitution requires (Congress coin money and the States allow nothing but gold and silver coins to be legal tender). If laws required banks keep 100% reserves against their deposits, then they could not create money out of thin air. Another example would be to do away with licensing laws which limit competition and ensure that those with licenses have an economic advantage. Instead of licensing drugs, hospitals, doctors, lawyers, cable companies, taxi cabs, plumbers, etc., (all government management) rely upon competition, private certifications, consumer reports, consumer assessment, research and judgment, and redress in court.
No system will work 100%, so no matter which we have, there will be some damage. It is a matter of which system produces the least damage, and history shows that slave systems like fascism and socialism produce much more damage to the majority than does a system of freedom and free markets. If people understood that what we have now is fascism instead of blaming free markets, then we might actually have a chance to improve our living conditions, but so many people blame freedom and clamor for more government interference in the economy, not less, and as a result, the damage keeps increasing.
As the economy contracts (partly the collapse of the debt based monetary system, and partly less production because of less energy), you can already see those in power using government to maintain their position, for example, the bailout of Wall Street at the expense of the general public. Those in power are using government to shift the burden of the contraction onto the shoulders of the many, thus accelerating the movement out of the middle class into poverty. In my view, the end result will be civil war, perhaps within the next 15 years. There will likely be three factions; (1)those who are in power and want the plunder and control to continue (fascists like Bush and Obama and the majority of Republicans and Democrats); (2)those out of power who want the plunder and control to continue, but want the benefits of this to go to the majority (socialism); and (3) those out of power who want to end the plunder and control (libertarians).
I don't have a clue as to the outcome. Overall, for the human race, maybe it doesn't matter all that much anyway since no system is likely to avert the die-off that is coming. But the political and economic system we have certainly does affect who among us will survive and who will perish. If you are being plundered and controlled by government and special interests, then you have a lesser chance or survival, and those plundering and controlling you have a greater chance.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Thomas H Huxley
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Re: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Wiped
by Plantagenet » Sat 24 Jul 2010, 12:43:16
This isn't just happening in the US. Look at the riots and strikes in Greece and Spain right now.
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Re: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Wiped
by PrestonSturges » Sat 24 Jul 2010, 15:47:57
The GOP is promising to finish the job if they get elected to Congress.
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Re: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Wiped
by Oakley » Sat 24 Jul 2010, 21:47:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')he GOP is promising to finish the job if they get elected to Congress.
Given that the GOP and the Democratic Party are just branches of the same Plunder and Control Party, I think you are correct.
During most of the history of the US the economic pie has been expanding, with few notable setbacks. A progressively greater and greater share of the pie has been taken by those in power, but people accepted this because the pie was expanding, and the smaller and smaller portion of the bigger pie going to the majority still gave them an increase in standard of living.
The post peak oil future will be one of contracting economic activity; just as energy was responsible for the prior expansion, the future of energy scarcity will be responsible for consistent contraction. A 5% reduction in available energy will cut economic output by 1/2 in just 14 years; imagine what that will do to the average person, especially considering that those in power will fight to take an even greater percentage to maintain their own standard of living.
We, indeed, are approaching the revolution point. That point is where the pain of going along with the current system exceeds the pain that comes from fighting back.
If suggest everyone read about the 1861 Civil War in border states like Missouri, where neighbors killed neighbors by the thousands, and just imagine that coming to the US nationwide as diverging political views are settled with violence.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Thomas H Huxley
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Re: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Wiped
by Sixstrings » Sat 24 Jul 2010, 21:53:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')he GOP is promising to finish the job if they get elected to Congress.
I'm sorry Preston, that's not enough to motivate me to get out and vote. I'm hearing that line of thought a lot lately in liberal circles.. it's a very weak sales pitch: yeah the Democrats are sellouts to the incorporated and the rich, but the Republicans would be marginally worse so get out there and campaign for these not-as-bad Dems! Uh-huh.
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