[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'H')ow audacious were these plans in the 1st place? They were always unfunded nonsense; only collective wishfull thinking let anyone believe otherwise.

[Cloud9]

After 38 years I get about $30,000.

[Umber]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'U')S Veterans pensions are very generous by world standards. Soon there will be millions of ex service pensioners aged between 25 and 45. Up to half of these may qualify for 100% disability payments close to $1000 a week. A lot of these guys are capable of working but they know their rights and if they have been traumatised at work they will eventually qualify. Once qualified, why work?

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '<')/div>$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Umber', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'U')S Veterans pensions are very generous by world standards. Soon there will be millions of ex service pensioners aged between 25 and 45. Up to half of these may qualify for 100% disability payments close to $1000 a week. A lot of these guys are capable of working but they know their rights and if they have been traumatised at work they will eventually qualify. Once qualified, why work?

[deMolay]

The Story of Your Enslavement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT ... _embedded#!

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '[')Total amount of federal government spending for veterans benefits programs in fiscal year 2008 - $84.4 billion. Of this total, $40.2 billion went to compensation and pensions, $37.9 billion for medical programs and the remainder to other programs, such as vocational rehabilitation and education.

[deMolay]

Instead of cutting benefits for the military, many of who paid a heavy price. Maybe the US should start closing some of its 1,000 military bases and outposts. And let places like the EU pay their own way. Think of the enormous entitlement that countries that get to freeload off US Military Protection use as an advantage against US manufacturers and US citizens competing against US goods and services. Canada I know is a biggy in this department.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'I')nstead of cutting benefits for the military, many of who paid a heavy price. Maybe the US should start closing some of its 1,000 military bases and outposts. And let places like the EU pay their own way. Think of the enormous entitlement that countries that get to freeload off US Military Protection use as an advantage against US manufacturers and US citizens competing against US goods and services. Canada I know is a biggy in this department.

[the48thronin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'I')nstead of cutting benefits for the military, many of who paid a heavy price. Maybe the US should start closing some of its 1,000 military bases and outposts. And let places like the EU pay their own way. Think of the enormous entitlement that countries that get to freeload off US Military Protection use as an advantage against US manufacturers and US citizens competing against US goods and services. Canada I know is a biggy in this department.

[deMolay]

You guys miss my point on Canada. I am not dissing Canada's Military here. Canada kept Britain alive from 1939 until you guys got into the action in 1942, alone without the US. By this I mean Hitler would have starved out England by the end of 1939 if Canada had not manned up and kept the convoys going until the US came in after Pearl Harbour. But since the 1950's Canada has had a free ride when it comes to paying for our own protection. Canada has 36,000 miles of coastline on 3 Oceans, 3 diesel electric subs and about 12 1970's frigates. Our police force is larger than our military. We have about 5,000 combat ready troops at any one time. Half our F-18 fleet have been canabalized for parts, we have about 40 functioning F-18's. We have not been paying our way. The money that we saved by being your neighbour allowed us to pay for Free Healthcare, and endless entitlement programs. Get the picture. We know that our Big Brother the USA will not allow the Russians, Chinese etc to invade Canada, so we have had a free lunch. That is all I mean.

[SeaGypsy]

For similar reasons Australia is in both Afghanistan and Iraq despite the fact that there was never majority support for us being there. Without US involvment in the Coral Sea war with Japan they certainly would have invaded Australia. New Zealand is arrogant enough to think they would have been able to negotiate with the empire and avoid invasion, a theory they never had to test. The wisdom of hindsight. Without US back up, Australia is too tiny a population to justify holding on or to physicly defend against invasion by it's neighbours.

Most Australians understand this fact so 'put up' with unpopular wars like those we have been dragged into currently. Our protest movement is always 1 step behind the USA's. The current protest movement will not have the success of the Vietnam protests until it is Veterans themselves leading the protests, now as it was then.

It seems like this is turning into a tangent I had never thought of before, obligation of countries like Australia and Canada being morally obliged towards US Veterans. I doubt there is any legislative substance to back this up in any department; but I suspect an 'Honorable Discharge' notice would carry weight in a visa application for a US Vet in any allied country.

If the US is to end up going hat in hand to it's allies, the ability to pay VA pensions may well be a catalyst. The reason I brought it up on this thread is that I see this as a central obligation of the US Federal government, and seriously huge it is. In my mind these payments would be right at the very top of priority for the US. The danger to the national interest if these service people are disenfranchised cannot be underestimated. The history of violent revolution suggests that a country who cannot keep it's obligation to it's military personell has a very short future.

The other half of the Vet budget, for rehabilitation and training, is possibly equally important.
The US does not need a few hundred Timothy McVeigh's.

To my mind this is the canary to the US Fed's coalmine. When the Fed is finally bankrupt, it will not be bailed out by allies, because it's allies are either in the same fiscal position or are too small to make a difference. The takeover would be IMF/ World Bank administrators, dictating the finances of the country with carte blanche to do anything they like to keep the country financially afloat.
The way I see it the IMF/ World Bank would not prioritise Veteran's support. Likely it would be tent cities and soup kitchens for everybody who can't look after themselves, FEMA camps for stealers of loaves of bread/ apples. What this plan fails to account for is pissed off veterans going Rambo; not just a possibility in such a scenario but an inevitability.

The hundred broke cities are like extremities turning gangrenous in a patient in need of a heart transplant. You can cut off the toes, one or 2 at a time, then the fingers and ears. But sooner or later if you don't get a new heart into that patient there will be nothing left to save.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'T')hink of the enormous entitlement that countries that get to freeload off US Military Protection use as an advantage against US manufacturers and US citizens competing against US goods and services. Canada I know is a biggy in this department.

[deMolay]

Article states as many as another 30 cities could go bankrupt in Michigan alone. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/us/28city.html?_r=1

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'Y')ou guys miss my point on Canada. I am not dissing Canada's Military here. Canada kept Britain alive from 1939 until you guys got into the action in 1942, alone without the US. By this I mean Hitler would have starved out England by the end of 1939 if Canada had not manned up and kept the convoys going until the US came in after Pearl Harbour. But since the 1950's Canada has had a free ride when it comes to paying for our own protection. Canada has 36,000 miles of coastline on 3 Oceans, 3 diesel electric subs and about 12 1970's frigates. Our police force is larger than our military. We have about 5,000 combat ready troops at any one time. Half our F-18 fleet have been canabalized for parts, we have about 40 functioning F-18's. We have not been paying our way. The money that we saved by being your neighbour allowed us to pay for Free Healthcare, and endless entitlement programs. Get the picture. We know that our Big Brother the USA will not allow the Russians, Chinese etc to invade Canada, so we have had a free lunch. That is all I mean.

[Revi]

These places are in real trouble. All of the places that used to work don't. The auto industry isn't coming back. They are building the Volt in Hamtramkt, but it doesn't seem to be helping the town out much.

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/103 ... om-the-ev1

[deMolay]

Looks like Indiana is getting into the city bankruptcy business. "Bill Would Allow Indiana Cities To Declare Bankruptcy" from article, this would allow a state manager to take control of the city or town, and cut spending, lay off and dismantle pensions etc. http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... 043/-1/rss

[Serial_Worrier]

How many of these cities are utterly corrupt like Bell, CA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_City_ ... ontroversy

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. We citizens have given the pols unchecked power for too long. We implicitly trust they have our best interests at heart, when in fact they are only aggrandizing themselves. They get away with it because the residents of those cities get pandered to with a combination of racial & union politics.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'L')ooks like Indiana is getting into the city bankruptcy business. "Bill Would Allow Indiana Cities To Declare Bankruptcy" from article, this would allow a state manager to take control of the city or town, and cut spending, lay off and dismantle pensions etc. http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... 043/-1/rss

[deMolay]

No serial worrier, I think that the spending has to stop, until the books are in balance again. If that means laying off public sector workers, I guess that is what would have to happen. If it means ending funding for special programs, then that is what should be done. Governments have been on a mad spending spree for 40 years, using tax dollars to buy votes. If the public sector workers have to have their contracts renegotiated then guess what, welcome to the real world. If the military has to close 800 of its 1000 bases, then guess what, get it done. No money means No money. The cheque has bounced. The Gold Card has been denied. The jig is up.