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Numbers - did you know....

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Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 07 Nov 2005, 23:43:31

That zero was not discovered till around the tenth century by muslims?

That eeni,meeni,myni,mo was ancient celtic counting?

That we use base 10 because we have ten digits on two hands?

That innuits used base 5 so they only need to take one glove off?

That a centurian was in charge of nominally a hundred soldiers?
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 07 Nov 2005, 23:57:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'T')hat zero was not discovered till around the tenth century by muslims?
"Now the ancient Greeks began their contributions to mathematics around the time that zero as an empty place indicator was coming into use in Babylonian mathematics."

"What is certain is that by around 650AD the use of zero as a number came into Indian mathematics. The Indians also used a place-value system and zero was used to denote an empty place. In fact there is evidence of an empty place holder in positional numbers from as early as 200AD in India but some historians dismiss these as later forgeries."

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~his ... /Zero.html
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby EdF » Tue 08 Nov 2005, 00:02:12

And zero appears to have been used about the same time or a bit earlier by the Maya.
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 08 Nov 2005, 00:06:43

The word 'zero' comes from arabic, as you can see from that article.
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby EdF » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 13:32:24

</q>$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')he word 'zero' comes from arabic, as you can see from that article.


What's that got to do with the concept of zero as a placeholder in positional notation, which is why it's so important?

According to Charles Mann's 1491, pp 214-6, it's pretty clear that the Olmec were using the concept of zero by 34 BC, if not earlier.

By the way, that book is a great read.

- Ed

BA Math, MS CS/CE (Duh)
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 13:56:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EdF', '&')lt;/q>$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')he word 'zero' comes from arabic, as you can see from that article.


What's that got to do with the concept of zero as a placeholder in positional notation, which is why it's so important?
Well, not too much. More or less just a concession to Roger that, yes, the Arabs were involved. Cipher, algebra, algorithm being other Arabic origins words. So what ever happened to the Arabs, anyway? They were going strong 1000 years ago.
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby Andrew_S » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 14:13:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'T')hat zero was not discovered till around the tenth century by muslims?



As PS pointed out the Arabs learnt the concept of zero from the Hindus.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')rahmagupta attempted to give the rules for arithmetic involving zero and negative numbers in the seventh century. He explained that given a number then if you subtract it from itself you obtain zero. He gave the following rules for addition which involve zero:-

The sum of zero and a negative number is negative, the sum of a positive number and zero is positive, the sum of zero and zero is zero.

Subtraction is a little harder:-

A negative number subtracted from zero is positive, a positive number subtracted from zero is negative, zero subtracted from a negative number is negative, zero subtracted from a positive number is positive, zero subtracted from zero is zero.

Brahmagupta then says that any number when multiplied by zero is zero but struggles when it comes to division:-

A positive or negative number when divided by zero is a fraction with the zero as denominator. Zero divided by a negative or positive number is either zero or is expressed as a fraction with zero as numerator and the finite quantity as denominator. Zero divided by zero is zero.

Really Brahmagupta is saying very little when he suggests that n divided by zero is n/0. Clearly he is struggling here. He is certainly wrong when he then claims that zero divided by zero is zero. However it is a brilliant attempt from the first person that we know who tried to extend arithmetic to negative numbers and zero.


Ancient Indian Mathematics

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')rahmagupta, whose father was Jisnugupta, wrote important works on mathematics and astronomy. In particular he wrote Brahmasphutasiddhanta (The Opening of the Universe), in 628.

Brahmagupta
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby Andrew_S » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 14:23:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Googol is the mathematical term for a 1 followed by 100 zeros. The term was coined by Milton Sirotta, nephew of American mathematician Edward Kasner, and was popularized in the book, "Mathematics and the Imagination" by Kasner and James Newman. Google's play on the term reflects the company's mission to organize the immense amount of information available on the web."


Googol

Okay, how much is a Brazillion?
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby EdF » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 14:42:32

<q>Okay, how much is a Brazillion?</q>

"Oh NO"!
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby kmann » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 17:03:32

yes, no, yes, no, yes
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby kmann » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 17:04:31

dup post, using my back button on the browser agian.
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby ECM » Fri 11 Nov 2005, 23:26:19

From my studies of Roman times a Centurion was typically in charge of 80 soldiers. Since it was close to a hundred they were given the name Centurion.
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Re: Numbers - did you know....

Unread postby rogerhb » Sat 12 Nov 2005, 10:26:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ECM', 'F')rom my studies of Roman times a Centurion was typically in charge of 80 soldiers. Since it was close to a hundred they were given the name Centurion.


I covered myself with the word "nominally" :roll:

The term "decimate" also has a Roman military origin. If a unit showed cowadice then one in ten soldiers were executed. To encourage the others... 8O
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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