[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')I never saw him lacking empathy.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')His pathology had an edge that awakened in folks their moral outrage which was where his logic would often force one, in spite of how much you hated him for his apparent cold, lack of empathy, to recognize a truth of the paradox we speak of around this moral dilemma.

[Ibon]

Always refusing to state his position by the way was not hiding like a coward behind a rock. That was part of his genius as I saw it. Everyone insisted on him taking a stand on the moral dilemma. The paradox Montequest understood deeply enough not to take the bait. And it was exactly by not stating his position but instead remaining in cold logic that you couldn't dispute the truth of what he was saying. People wanted to see the human in Monte but isn't that part of the moral dilemma around overshoot? Once you insist on framing the discussion of overshoot around the human and humanity you depart from ecological truths that when ignored is what led us to overshoot in the first place. His refusal to take a stand was one of his singular strengths.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')Once you insist on framing the discussion of overshoot around the human and humanity you depart from ecological truths that when ignored is what led us to overshoot in the first place. His refusal to take a stand was one of his singular strengths.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')I never saw him lacking empathy.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')When his logic would take you down I never felt his lack of empathy was cruel or intentionally belittling. That is more what I meant to say.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')his seems to be saying that we must lose (or dispose of) our humanity in order to address overshoot.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')hanks for clarifying. Callous indifference to other peoples' feelings is, I suppose, an exemplary characteristic of scientists.

[Ludi]

Incidentally Monte's logic wasn't all that hot. He was kind of fixated on organ transplants, which have a negligible impact on population.

[Ludi]

I think we might need to increase our empathy, not reduce it, for our fellow humans and for all other living things.

But this is probably too squishy and spiritualish/religiousy for some folks.

<<<generally avoids woo woo except in private.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')ncidentally Monte's logic wasn't all that hot. He was kind of fixated on organ transplants, which have a negligible impact on population.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')Negligible impact on population yes but not negligible as a symbol or as the lowest hanging fruit as a place to start.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') think we might need to increase our empathy, not reduce it, for our fellow humans and for all other living things.

But this is probably too squishy and spiritualish/religiousy for some folks.

<<<generally avoids woo woo except in private.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'E')veryone insisted on him taking a stand on the moral dilemma.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Then he should have illustrated where that start would have led to in his ideal dystopia. He never went any further than that, veering into gorilla meat pathogen territory.

[Ludi]

I guess what I'm saying is, you will alienate MILLIONS (billions?) of people with the message "we have to deny organ transplants and unplug your mom (but not Monte's mom)" when you could be helping millions (billions?) of people by providing family planning services. Even if the message of the symbol of denying organ transplants is "logical" (which I don't personally accept - I think it makes no sense at all), it is not "logical" to latch onto a message which does nothing but alienate people. It is "worse than useless" to borrow a phrase.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')This all happened within 24 hours. My question. Which day was he a hypocrite? When he shot the duck or saw god in the sunset?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'w')hich is why he kept taking off as soon as people pried too deeply into his personal life.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')So that's a far cry from the portrait you're painting. People today see God in Lady Gaga's meat-dress.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'T')oday I steward 400 acres of wilderness bordering a huge national park.