[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'R')egardless, the military's chow lines will remain open, ships will remain at sea, and land forces deployed as they are ordered, pay or no pay, Bob the Enlistee will show up for work, and the military will insure that Bob doesn't starve to death, money or no money.

[highlander]

Do you really believe that not raising the debt ceiling by August 2 will lead to a US debt default? Really?
regardless of action or continued inaction by congresscritters, US credit will be downgraded. this will lead to higher interest rates for all.
It also means the US taxpayers pay the Fed more to print money to pay interest to the Fed. Pretty cool gig, if you are a Fed bank.
If you vote for a republican or democrat, you are making a foolish choice. If you are banking with a TBTF bank (Chase, BOA, Goldman, and others), you are aiding and abetting criminal behavior. If you are listening to MSM, you are getting your brain addled. None of these groups have your best interests in mind.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'I')t's something like a trillion over 10 years, or about 100 billion per year, from my understanding.

Or maybe more correctly stated, the difference between the Dem and Repub plans is about 1%, a total joke to be fighting over.

[vision-master]

It's not like the slaves have to produce more gold from them mines.

Just hit the 'start' button on the presses.

[Oakley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he whole thing is silly anyway, given that the GDP is teetering on contraction and any serious gov cuts would be deflationary.

[vision-master]

But will it collapse from the bottom or top?

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'B')ut will it collapse from the bottom or top?

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'R')egardless, the military's chow lines will remain open, ships will remain at sea, and land forces deployed as they are ordered, pay or no pay, Bob the Enlistee will show up for work, and the military will insure that Bob doesn't starve to death, money or no money.

[Cog]

With all the slowdown in GDP and continued high unemployment, has anyone noticed that WTI oil prices are still staying in a $95-100 band? I will continue to maintain that the US can not grow with oil prices that high. The first two quarters of 2011 GDP has shown that correlation.

Regarding default, with all the hyper inflated rhetoric about how living within our budget is tantamount to national suicide, the real point of all this gets obscured. The longer you avoid taking the pain of living within a budget, the worse the pain is going to be when you are forced to. In ten years the amount of interest we pay on the national debt will double. That is assuming that interest rates remain in the 3% range for the government. I can still remember 15% interest rates in the country being a norm. If we get a downgrade and interest rates soar that the government must pay on our debt, we could get to the situation very quickly that every dollar of revenue goes to pay interest.

It very simple, if the growth of the national debt is higher than the growth of GDP, you will go bankrupt. Its that simple math that seems to elude the progressives.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'D')o you really believe that not raising the debt ceiling by August 2 will lead to a US debt default? Really?
regardless of action or continued inaction by congresscritters, US credit will be downgraded. this will lead to higher interest rates for all.
It also means the US taxpayers pay the Fed more to print money to pay interest to the Fed. Pretty cool gig, if you are a Fed bank.
If you vote for a republican or democrat, you are making a foolish choice. If you are banking with a TBTF bank (Chase, BOA, Goldman, and others), you are aiding and abetting criminal behavior.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', '
') If you are listening to MSM, you are getting your brain addled. None of these groups have your best interests in mind.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')hat is assuming that interest rates remain in the 3% range for the government. I can still remember 15% interest rates in the country being a norm. If we get a downgrade and interest rates soar that the government must pay on our debt, we could get to the situation very quickly that every dollar of revenue goes to pay interest.

[RedStateGreen]

Well, an immediate semi-personal pre-default effect (FWIW) was when my husband took the kids to the grocery store today. He said there were huge lines of people buying food like it was going to be an ice storm. The cashier told him it had been going on all week; people are worried about the government shutting down and either being furloughed or having their SS/welfare/etc checks not show up.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'W')ell, an immediate semi-personal pre-default effect (FWIW) was when my husband took the kids to the grocery store today. He said there were huge lines of people buying food like it was going to be an ice storm. The cashier told him it had been going on all week; people are worried about the government shutting down and either being furloughed or having their SS/welfare/etc checks not show up.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'W')ell, an immediate semi-personal pre-default effect (FWIW) was when my husband took the kids to the grocery store today. He said there were huge lines of people buying food like it was going to be an ice storm. The cashier told him it had been going on all week; people are worried about the government shutting down and either being furloughed or having their SS/welfare/etc checks not show up.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')eah now you are getting it. That is your job to take care of your relatives. Why are you trying to make it mine? Fairness? LOL

[Cog]

I wonder if those people who paid into social security and medicare all their lives ever ran the math on the programs or did they simply believe their congress critters that the programs were sustainable. Either way, the result is the same. Both of the programs are Ponzi schemes which rely on unlimited growth, which is now off the table with peak oil.

Now you may think I'm cruel and heartless towards those of advanced age. I'm just realistic on what is getting ready to happen to them. If they sat around all their lives and believed the government to take care of them at the end of it, they are going to be sorely disappointed. People of means and people with close family ties are going to survive. Those who have neither are going to die. Its just that way and me wishing it wasn't won't change the math. If I wanted to hide my head in the sand like our 535 Congress people do, how does that make me better off?

[Cloud9]

I'm a conservative and I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but with limited resources there is a limit to what any of us can do.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') wonder if those people who paid into social security and medicare all their lives ever ran the math on the programs or did they simply believe their congress critters that the programs were sustainable.

[Cog]

You are forgetting something Sixstrings and it amazes me that you do since you are on a peak oil board. Peak oil makes growth impossible and all ponzi schemes like SS and Medicare are based on unlimited growth. I think you have seen the GDP numbers for the first and second quarter this year. If that didn't give you a clue that things are headed to another recession, I can't help you here.