[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', '[')img]http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon072409.gif[/img]

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'T')o reduce healthcare costs sufficiently is probably impossible, because the following are impossible or near impossible.

1) Reduce the influence of pharmaceutical companies

2) Eliminate the inefficiencies of having middlemen who produce no actual services (health insurance)

3) Reduce unnecessary services patients request (drive down demand)

4) Improve diets (drive down demand)

5) Increase # of doctors in this country (increase supply) - would be opposed by AMA

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'T')o reduce healthcare costs sufficiently is probably impossible, because the following are impossible or near impossible.
1) Reduce the influence of pharmaceutical companies
2) Eliminate the inefficiencies of having middlemen who produce no actual services (health insurance)
3) Reduce unnecessary services patients request (drive down demand)
4) Improve diets (drive down demand)
5) Increase # of doctors in this country (increase supply) - would be opposed by AMA

[Pops]

I realize this is a Ditto Head thread for the most part, but I'll post thoughts I actually thought up anyway.

Paying the bills of the uninsured is an obligation of the privileged. That isn't my sentiment, that is the American system. Because in the US medical treatment IS a right, it says so on the emergency room door.

Don't like that idea? Drop your insurance and definitely don't go to the hospital because you are paying for treating the uninsured in the most ineffective way possible, at the Emergency room when they are really sick.

That, payouts to people who own stock in insurance companies and the MD's need to test to CYA seems a pretty good explanation of why our "system" is so inefficient - but like most things we do we obviously like paying extra to get to poke fun at "socialists".

And don't think it is just a problem of the poor:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')According to the results of the Commonwealth Fund's 2007 biennial survey, released in August, 45 percent or respondents said they'd delayed or avoided care for fear of mounting costs.
Americans now charge an estimated $45 billion in out-of-pocket medical costs to credit cards, ...
According to a 2003 Federal Reserve study, 52 percent of collection records that appear on credit reports are related to medical debts... http://www.newsweek.com/id/170701

[AlexdeLarge]

Don't worry, Obamacare will provide seniors with counseling on end-of-life options, including refusing nutrition where state law allows it.

GovernmentCare’s Assault on Seniors
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574303903498159292.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he assault against seniors began with the stimulus package in February. Slipped into the bill was substantial funding for comparative effectiveness research, which is generally code for limiting care based on the patient’s age. Economists are familiar with the formula, where the cost of a treatment is divided by the number of years (called QALYs, or quality-adjusted life years) that the patient is likely to benefit. In Britain, the formula leads to denying treatments for older patients who have fewer years to benefit from care than younger patients

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'D')on't worry, Obamacare will provide seniors with counseling on end-of-life options, including refusing nutrition where state law allows it.

GovernmentCare’s Assault on Seniors
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574303903498159292.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he assault against seniors began with the stimulus package in February. Slipped into the bill was substantial funding for comparative effectiveness research, which is generally code for limiting care based on the patient’s age. Economists are familiar with the formula, where the cost of a treatment is divided by the number of years (called QALYs, or quality-adjusted life years) that the patient is likely to benefit. In Britain, the formula leads to denying treatments for older patients who have fewer years to benefit from care than younger patients

[AlexdeLarge]

[Carlhole]

Until the last week, the Republicans have said little more than "Niet" in unison over Health Care Reform. But as soon as the issue of Afghanistan shifted to the front-burner, suddenly several prominent Republicans began urging their colleagues to cooperate with Democrats on health care.

I'm wondering if there has been some sort of quid pro quo over how to deal with the mess in Afghanistan. I haven't heard anyone else mention this, but it occurred to me - ie. We'll give you something on health care if you give us what we want in Afghanistan.

I still firmly believe that Afghanistan is more about oil & gas pipeline politics and the security of other American natural resource ventures in Central Asia than it is about Muslim womens' rights or Islamic militancy. Yet, politicians on both sides continue to invoke 911 and Al-Quaida as the primary reasons for the military occupation of Afghanistan, even though the war is 8 years old and has been neglected all this time while the US concentrated on the Iraq invasion (which had nothing to do with 911).

There really is very little difference between the two political parties on core issues. Anyone who believes there are significant differences is an idiot. It's all just rhetoric for mass consumption.

[Kristen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here really is very little difference between the two political parties on core issues. Anyone who believes there are significant differences is an idiot. It's all just rhetoric for mass consumption.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here really is very little difference between the two political parties on core issues. Anyone who believes there are significant differences is an idiot. It's all just rhetoric for mass consumption.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')resident Obama said he likes the Senate health care compromise and wants it passed by Christmas, but he faces a revolt from some liberals who say the health care bill has been gutted to appease insurance companies.

"This is a bigger bailout for the insurance industry than AIG," former Democratic National Committee chairman and medical doctor Howard Dean told "Good Morning America's" George Stephanopoulos today. "A very small number of people are going to get any insurance at all, until 2014, if the bill works.

"This is an insurance company's dream, this bill," Dean continued. "This is the Washington scramble, and I think it's ill-advised."

Dean sent shockwaves when he said Tuesday in an interview with Vermont Public Radio that the removal of the Medicare buy-in means Democrats should just kill the health care bill and start over.

"This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate," Dean said.

[gollum]

The bill needs to be killed, and if it's not Americans should really think about meaningful civil disobedience. Enough of giving public money and guarantees (and not a captive customer base) to big business.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'T')he bill needs to be killed, and if it's not Americans should really think about meaningful civil disobedience. Enough of giving public money and guarantees (and not a captive customer base) to big business.

[Roy]

Odds this one will pass?

Pretty good I'd say.

BOHICA (bend over here it comes again)

[highlander]

Get in on the ground floor of the next bubble. Invest in insurance companies. Best buy, probably AARP. It seems like most still believe they are looking out for the retirees interests.
My question is, with very few taxpayers liking this, why do our representatives still cram it down our throats. Yes it is a rhetorical question.

[PrestonSturges]

I wonder how this will play out politically? Isn't this what the GOP and teabaggers wanted - keeping the feeral government out of health care.

Isn't this their idea of Utopia? Private monopolies disguised as the "free market?"

Is there anything in this for the GOP not love except that it failed to do away with Medicare and Social Security?

[ian807]

Yup, we couldn't have a simple single payer or mixed system like Canada or virtually any European country. We're apparently just too lame for that.

[Revi]

What happened to the public option? How about buying into medicare early? What is left?

They can get stuffed in my opinion.

You can't get blood from a turnip.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')hat happened to the public option? How about buying into medicare early? What is left?

They can get stuffed in my opinion.

You can't get blood from a turnip.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')hat happened to the public option? How about buying into medicare early? What is left?

They can get stuffed in my opinion.

You can't get blood from a turnip.