[jbrovont]

"Penalty for non-participation 2.5% of adjusted gross income"

So if you're too poor to pay for health coverage, you get fined for it. I'm all for actually getting something for my taxes, but this little caveat makes this proposed bill an absolute failure as far as "social improvement." People don't opt not to have healthcare because they don't want it. People without health insurance either have so much money they don't need insurance, or they have so little money they have to spend that $300 on rent and food and pray they don't get sick.

And on that same note, does it seem more likely businesses will pay for their employee's coverage, or dock them 8% and "contribute from their payroll?"

Starting to look like a really good intention that's been through the lobbying grinder.

[Caffeine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbrovont', '&')quot;Penalty for non-participation 2.5% of adjusted gross income"

So if you're too poor to pay for health coverage, you get fined for it.

[like_the_dinosaurs]

It's too late to fix the u.s health care system, it should of been done decades ago.

The whole point of paying taxes is so the government can provide services to the people. The last time I checked health is an essential service. The united states is the only developed nation on the planet without a governement run health system. If the system works in Europe, Australia and Canada then why cant it work in the U.S.A.

The system of user pay's is left over from a by gone era when only the rich would go to college or receive health care. There are lots of services that are state run. When you call 911 you dont ask them how much it is going to cost to send out a patrol car or the fire bridgade to stop your house from burning down.

All essential services should be run by the governement because the moment it is placed into private hands it morphs into a profit run business.

So all of these far right wingers who use the same arguements against government health care as FOX news can shove your user pay system where the sun doesnt shine.

PS I Live in australia and the system works fine. The longest I had to wait was 3 hours in a hospital. I've been bitten by snakes, broken bones, one operation when i was 5 that lasted hours and had blood infections. I never got a bill for any of it. ZERO outlay because my TAXES pay for it.

[frankthetank]

I'll wait in line if its free or cheap. Ever been to the DMV? Talk about a Leper colony! How about ALDIs? One clerk and a line to the back of the store, yet people keep coming back.

I'm up for a big tax on gasoline, beer, fast food, and sugar drinks to cover health insurance for everyone. Half? this stuff is the reason we pay so much for coverage.

I was talking to a cop about the beer tax (it hasn't been raised since the '60's or something like that) and he was all for raising it. Said so much taxpayer money is pissed away on cops dealing with drunks (domestic disputes, fights, accidents, etc etc)... I told him they should be able to swiftly deal with these situations with their pistols.

I see a race war coming at some point...

[Caffeine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('like_the_dinosaurs', 'S')o all of these far right wingers who use the same arguements against government health care as FOX news can shove your user pay system where the sun doesnt shine.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', '[')img]http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon071309.gif[/img]

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbrovont', '&')quot;Penalty for non-participation 2.5% of adjusted gross income"

So if you're too poor to pay for health coverage, you get fined for it. I'm all for actually getting something for my taxes, but this little caveat makes this proposed bill an absolute failure as far as "social improvement." People don't opt not to have healthcare because they don't want it. People without health insurance either have so much money they don't need insurance, or they have so little money they have to spend that $300 on rent and food and pray they don't get sick.

And on that same note, does it seem more likely businesses will pay for their employee's coverage, or dock them 8% and "contribute from their payroll?"

Starting to look like a really good intention that's been through the lobbying grinder.

[rangerone314]

I think the whole arguement about insurance is silly. Insurance is only part of the issue. If it only cost 5 cents to have a broken bone, everyone could pay out of pocket.

I thought the original purpose of "insurance" was so that you pay a small amount towards mitigating an expensive but probablistically unlikely event. Seems that we are trying to make health insurance the opposite.

The real issue (because it affects EVERYONE, not just the uninsured) is the PRICE charged for "services". Has anyone TRULY done a breakdown of the actual COSTS of providing a service. In other words if a hospital stay in 1990 costs $3000 and it costs $5000 in 2009, where/who does the actual money go to? If you visit a doctor and you pay $25 and the insurance pays $200, how does the $225 get distributed?

What we need is a spreadsheet of such, with maybe 4 years in 5 year increments for trend analysis. I find it impossible that there are not certain actors in this little drama that are not raking in the dough for minimal actual work and services. I suspect lawyers, insurance companies and big pharma.

My credo: identify the source of your pain, and obliterate it.

[like_the_dinosaurs]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caffeine', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('like_the_dinosaurs', 'S')o all of these far right wingers who use the same arguements against government health care as FOX news can shove your user pay system where the sun doesnt shine.

[Caffeine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('like_the_dinosaurs', '
')I'm not talking about the bill because the bill isn't a governement run health system, I was talking about the arguements against governement run health. This bill doesnt fix the health problem because it's still controlled by corporations. LEARN TO READ.

It's too late now anyway,you can't fix this during a depression.

[like_the_dinosaurs]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caffeine', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('like_the_dinosaurs', '
')I'm not talking about the bill because the bill isn't a governement run health system, I was talking about the arguements against governement run health. This bill doesnt fix the health problem because it's still controlled by corporations. LEARN TO READ.

It's too late now anyway,you can't fix this during a depression.

[mattduke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')bama's Health Care Reform For Visual Learners

[Fishman]

LTDinos
Yes, "state run medicine works", but in a method that will freak Americans out. You received care as needed for problems that arose. You probably did not get numerous CTs, numerous subspecialists, and you seem to be relatively young. Take a 70 year old America, demented. They still get CT scans, dialysis, bypass grafts and if a doctors says no, doc gets sued. Miss a diagnosis, get sued. So, docs throw everything at the patient. "Works" from your point of view is vastly different from "works" here.

[IgnoranceIsBliss]

One problem with the healthcare "reform" proposal (other than terrible timing) is the fact that we are talking about forcing insurance companies to take everyone (regardless of illnesses) and charge everyone the same.

This is like requiring the auto insurance company to cover anyone who wants coverage. Someone with 5 DUI's and 5 reckless driving citations will have to receive coverage and not only that, they will have to be charged the exact same premium price as someone who has a perfect driving record and who only drives 10 miles a week. Result? Prices jump through the roof for everyone!!!!

Underwriting is circumvented. The result of course is that private insurance will fold like a house of cards. Everyone will flock to the government option and there you have it... single payer gov't insurance in the USA.

Then from there, the government program will explode into major cost over-runs. Let's face it, we are the most unhealthy group on the planet. We cannot cover everyone for everything. We cannot cover those who want to eat themselves to dealth. I was in line the other day at the local grocery. A woman with a fat child put her items on the cart. This is what she had: white bread, pork chops, soft drinks, ice cream. Nuff said.

The real "reform" that we need is a sea change. No more pills to cure our poor lifestyle choices. Subsidize vegetables not sugar. You get the picture.

I know so many of my friends who have major health problems and we are only 37. Diabetes, gall bladder, and on and on. Many of my husband's co-workers are obese and they are in and out of the hospital. (they do a "cares and concerns" e-mail chain to everyone, whether you want it or not. Please pray for so and so, he's having chest pains and in the hospital again [and he's 150 lbs overweight and 30 years old]. Stop the maddness.

If this plan passes, it will be the death of private insurance. The GOP is right on that for sure.
Plus, how much is the penalty for companies if they don't cover their workers? I thought it turned out to be a lot less than the $12k or so they pay for family coverage, so why not just pay the penalty and save money??

I used to work in benefits administration for a large company, so I have an idea of what is going on here.

[vision-master]

private insurance = service contract


Get over the idea of 'insurance'.

[AlexdeLarge]

From the Health Administration Bureau

Health Rations & You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrwdZ2bX-oc

Do your part to support health care!

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caffeine', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('like_the_dinosaurs', 'S')o all of these far right wingers who use the same arguements against government health care as FOX news can shove your user pay system where the sun doesnt shine.

[AgentR]

The reason corporate america is happy with this effort isn't that it removes cost; it doesn't. Taxes will be raised, sooner, or later, to pay for it. The real problem for them is that the cost is unpredictable, and uneven between companies. You honestly don't know, from one year to the next whether your health insurance costs are going to be 20% higher or 20% lower than your competitors. After a while, that gets old.

And its been a while.

The real problem with our health care system, is that no one has a financial motivation to say "no" when a doctor tries to sell you something. Only the payors have that, and they get criticized and sued every time they do. The patient has no financial motivation to say, "no, I think that treatment option is not worth the cost."

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '
')The real problem with our health care system, is that no one has a financial motivation to say "no" when a doctor tries to sell you something.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', '[')img]http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon071309.gif[/img]