[Niagara]

This is really cool: World Clock Link
Note the barrels of oil pumped, cars produced and environmental stats updated in real time. The earth's temperature is interesting too.

[Aaron]

very cool

[bodigami]

Current computers should last at least 7 years (specially Macs and other well designed and built PCs... including custom built).

[WildRose]

Interesting. Thinking in medical terms, I noted that the number of cancer cases rises surprisingly quickly. Also, the rate of deaths per minute is almost the same as the rate of abortions.

[Alcassin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I')nteresting. Thinking in medical terms, I noted that the number of cancer cases rises surprisingly quickly. Also, the rate of deaths per minute is almost the same as the rate of abortions.

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alcassin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I')nteresting. Thinking in medical terms, I noted that the number of cancer cases rises surprisingly quickly. Also, the rate of deaths per minute is almost the same as the rate of abortions.

[NEOPO]

Yep, very cool yet I also doubt the accuracy of some of these numbers. One of my doubts is with the prison population. I recall the original server went down this summer and this link looks to be a proxy server.

While attempting to find the original site I found this - Peak oil clock. And with a Matt savinarian flare "we have 29.8 years of oil remaining, Bitches!"

[Bas]

well, the abortion numbers seem about right according to wiki:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he incidence and reasons for induced abortion vary regionally. It has been estimated that approximately 46 million abortions are performed worldwide every year. Of these, 26 million are said to occur in places where abortion is legal; the other 20 million happen where the procedure is illegal

[Alcassin]

China itself has about 7 million known abortions per year, but this number can be higher. In 1990 there were 14 million. And population of China has grown from 1,2 bln to 1,3 bln. And again - if there were no abortions in China population there would be higher about 300-400 million in 30 years. Well, this number adds up to China.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')etween 10% and 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alcassin', 'C')hina itself has about 7 million known abortions per year, but this number can be higher... In 1990 there were 14 million. And population of China has grown from 1,2 bln to 1,3 bln. And again - if there were no abortions in China population there would be higher about 300-400 million in 30 years. Well, this number adds up to China.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')etween 10% and 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage

[Alcassin]

Okay Bas we have two kinds of reasoning:

1) Your reasoning - 25% of all pregnancies are aborted. This is stunning fact but if the abortion clinics are so popular - this means 500 million of induced abortion every decade. This means that we decreased the number of people by few percent only by induced abortions.
If so - abortion is the best known recipe to prevent doom from overpopulation.

2) My reasoning (but I'm not dogmatic, I just want truth) - most aborted pregnancies are not the effect of induced abortion but rather forced by nature. If so - one-child policy effects are exaggarated and doom is inevitable sooner or later. Still we don't have much data from China, but the number of 7 million is quite known.

Looks like every fetus outside the womb is counted as abortion even if it wasn't induced.

[Bas]

I just want the truth too, Alcassin, but with every source I check I get more confused. None of them are using well defined categories of abortions, and are in contradiction with themselves: on the one hand saying that there are about 50 million abortions a year and on the other hand saying that the abortion rate for the world is about 26/1000 wich equates to 5 million abortions or so.

Trying to find a source that is clear about this seems futile, and I'm almost to the point where I'm starting to think that there is some sort of statistical cover-up or conspiracy going on here (though when searching for facts on abortion, I mostly find pro-life sites that may be wilfully exagurating/manipulating the facts, and also edited wikipedia )

[Alcassin]

Bas I found one thing - bunch of anti-choice idiots use "spontaneus abortions" which are miscarrages to their statistics, they don't count that 1/5 of pregnancies end in miscarrage between 4th and 12th week.

The number of induced abortions is HIGHLY exaggarated:
Doctor says that

We use data that shouldn't be in papers. If 1/5 of all pregnancies naturally end in time till 12th week then almost every woman can be prosecuted for the crime against fetus O_O OMG. This is like the worst scene from dark ages.

They believe that earth is flat, flintstones are documentary, and there is no limits to growth.

[Bas]

I guess that the myth that there are more abortions than live births in Russia came from the same people to scare people into supporting their agenda. While in fact the abortion rate is 60/1000 (still high for international standards).

I can't believe I believed that fairytale about Russia. Lying bastards those "pro-lifers".

[Alcassin]

This is "pro-life"?



They are pro-birth not pro-life.

Russia can have big trouble - but not because of abortions, there was no abortion boom after SU collapsed. Life expectancy dropped - medi-care was destroyed and death rate soared.

[Bas]

ah Alcassin, agree with you totally there.

We found, well actually a good friend of mine found the mistake in the wiki page: the 26 abortions is not per 1000 pregnancies but per 1000 women aged 15-44, we have corrected the wikipedia file.

So to conclude, there are indeed about 50 milion abortions every year, or about 25 percent of all pregnancies and I think this is good news, otherwise indeed the population growth would be 60% higher than it is now. I'm going to prepare a thread now to show of this fact (that I wasn't aware of until now) and I think I'll call it "abortions are rapidly stemming population growth", or something along those lines. What do you think?

[Alcassin]

Oh that's nice Start the thread

So, to conclude, my reasoning was a mistake.

But still I learnt something - I have the number of miscarriage in mind - that nature does the same - 20% of all pregnancies are naturally removed. This is good counter-argument against pro-birth agenda.

Second thing - 25% of known pregnancies are aborted. This is huge number, but still human population grows. Anyway it gives a chance to humanity that it can survive.

The numbers can be measured in other way, if the argument of exponential growth is recognized without supression of human sexuality. That's also good. If we could double the number of abortions the growth should stop.

EDIT: Bas, smth is bad in that change in article on wikipedia. Look at the source:Here
This article looks credible.

Somebody changed the number from 1000 to 100, and still it counts as pregnancy, and not for a woman.

[Pretorian]

the link is great thanks