[donhall]

Why cant we utilize geo thermal energy to offset the decline in fossil fuels?

[marek]

Geothermal energy will be helpful, especially for home heating and, in some areas (e.g. in California), potentially for electricity generation. The problem is that it is not exactly a renewable source - the longer you exploit it in any given place, the lower the thermal yield will be (California has already witnessed it with its geothermal electrical powerplants).

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('donhall', 'W')hy cant we utilize geo thermal energy to offset the decline in fossil fuels?

[Aaron]

I believe Iceland has rich geothermal resources and uses this technology with success.

But I don't think they are going to invite all of us over so...

[skiwi]

Rotorua in New Zealand's North Island is the perfect spot with
the only drawback being that volcanoes often inhabit the same areas
as the early inhabitants there found to their dismay last century

Tarawera Eruption

June 10th 1886, shortly after midnight, earthquakes are felt in Te Wairoa and Rotorua. The area is renowned for tremors and no-one is too worried. Residents sleep blissfully unaware of the impending danger.

Around 1:30am there is a violent earthquake followed by the sound of an explosion. Sleepy residents look in terror across the lake to see Tarawera's Wahanga dome , exploding into life. The eruption cloud was about 9.5 km high and easily visible, being lit up by the mountain's continuing eruption and accompanying lightning storm.

For half an hour, the spell bound residents stare in awe at the scene before them, a few sense the danger and head toward the safety of nearby Rotorua. At 2.00am, there is a second explosion as the Ruawahia peak, and then the Tarawera peak erupt with all the fury that mother nature can muster.

So loud was the second explosion, that it was heard in Christchurch over 800 kilometres south. In Wellington 400km south, locals believed that Russians were invading New Zealand by way of bombing. The amazing lightning storm above the second Tarawera eruption was visible as lights in the sky from New Zealand's South Island.

Eyewitnesses near the mountain reported that Mount Tarawera had split open, and that a huge column of fire could be seen shooting up into the air and forming a black cloud of smoke and ash. In fact, a 17km fissure had been created down the length of the Tarawera complex.......

[MonteQuest]

Let's stay on topic, please.

MQ

[nocar]

Yes, according to my understanding, Iceland has used its geothermal energy in the form of hot water to heat most houses (and greenhouses) for decades, if not centuries. So it is not a new exciting source of energy, just very good. The vikings,1000 years ago, used the hot springs too. I think for electricity they have plenty of hydroelectricy (lots of rain and lots of mountains). They also have a very small population, less than 300 000 in total.

They pledged to become the first fossil fuel free nation on earth - I do not know how far the they have come. Presently they have as many cars per person as other European countries.

Coupled with their very good hot springs they have had some disasters, like in the 18th century when their vulcanoes erupted and killed a large part of their population, directly or indirectly through destroying sheep pastures.

They are enlarging their hydroelectric capacity (encroaching on untouched wilderness) to be able to make aluminum for the world - in case their fisheries become depleted, or not enough for a growing population? They have one of highest birth rates in Europe.

Perhaps in a post peak oil world they will also be able to help power the world with their unique breed of ponies.

If there is an Icelander on this forum, please correct if I am mistaken. And tell more about your success in getting rid of fossil fuels.

[frankthetank]

This is how i see the future of energy production. Energy created locally produced by whats available. Wind in windy places, solar in sunny places, etc. Iceland is very unique, and is wise in using whats available locally. Now if others could catch on.

[MonkeyMia]

In the State I live in they are trialing making steam from hot granite deep underground for power, and this isn't volcanically active granite.

But it costs a lot to drill the holes, and to maintain, so not very useful post-peak.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'T')his is how i see the future of energy production. Energy created locally produced by whats available. Wind in windy places, solar in sunny places, etc. Iceland is very unique, and is wise in using whats available locally. Now if others could catch on.

[skiwi]

Another New Zealand First

Geotherm gets ok to build geothermal power stations. Jan 8th 2005

...Consent for the new station took so long because Environment Waikato has a single tapper policy, meaning only one operation can take from the field at a time and Contact had a re-consent application before the council to continue its existing operation.

The decision by three independent commissioners appointed by Environment Waikato challenges the policy, although conditions placed on Geotherm minimise any impacts.

Geotherm chairman Alistair McLachlan said all the fluid taken from the field would be injected back, causing no subsidence, an issue that has plagued Taupo in recent times.

It is the first station in the world to adopt this system.

The re-injection of fluid is a condition of the consent and Geotherm will also be required to tracer-test the re-injected fluid to check any impact on Contact's existing operation....

[Kingcoal]

Electric heatpumps using ground water are a kind of geothermal energy used for home heating/cooling. The big problem with heat pumps is that they quit working when the coils ice up. They must then defrost, which uses a lot of energy and requires the "emergency heat" be used to heat the house until the coils are usable again.

Burying the coils, especially in ground water can prevent them from icing up and allow the heatpump to contine working below outdoor freezing temps. During summer months, the airconditioning also realizes greater eficiencies.

GEOTHERMAL HEAT PUMP ENERGY

Of course you need electricity, lots of it! Assuming your electric is coal fired, you're starting out at an efficiency of about 30% before you even turn on the heatpump!

[Graeme]

Geothermal in Bush's FY'06 Budget

I'm interested in what is happening in the USA (because you are the driver of the world economy) and in geothermal (because that is the area of my expertise).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')resident Bush sent his Fiscal Year 2006 Budget to Congress on 7 February 2005. The $2.57 trillion federal budget includes $23.4 billion for the Department of Energy (DOE), $10.6 billion for the Department of the Interior (DOI), and $19.4 billion for the Department of Agriculture (USDA). The spending plan cuts funding for 12 of 23 government agencies; USDA and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) face some of the larger cuts.

[Graeme]

Geothermal Power Expands to 24 Countries, Meets the Needs of 60 Million People

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON, May 16 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Geothermal energy is now produced in 24 countries (listed at site below) and on all continents except Antarctica, according to a new study by Rugerro Bertani of ENEL, presented at the World Geothermal Congress in Turkey. In 2003, geothermal resource supplied 57,000 Gigawatt-hours of electricity, an increase of 15 percent from 2000 and 50 percent from 1995, Bertani reported.

Since 2000, geothermal generation has tripled in France, Russia, and Kenya and three new countries-Austria, Germany, and Papua New Guinea-have been added to the list of those producing power. "Geothermal energy is today meeting the total electricity needs of some 60 million people worldwide - roughly the population of the United Kingdom," noted Karl Gawell, Executive Director of GEA, the US industry's trade group. "Countries as diverse as the Philippines, Iceland, and El Salvador generate an average of 25 percent of their electricity from geothermal sources, and geothermal serves 30 percent of Tibet's energy needs," he added.

While US research budgets are being cut, other countries are investing more in new technology," Gawell noted. For example, new Hot Dry Rock (HDR) technology is expected to produce hundreds of megawatts in Australia this year. This technology could allow geothermal power production virtually anywhere in the world.

[sicophiliac]

Anybody think its conceivable to just drill massive holes down close to the upper mantle and generate electricity by having huge U shaped pipes going down there and powering a steam genorator ? Initial costs and energy investment would be enourmous obviously but assuming you get it to work there should be enough power for centuries if not tens of thousands of years. Its not like were going to vent out the entire mantle of the earth and cool it off.

[Graeme]

Geothermal wells do not go down to the mantle. They only go a few kilometres just far enough to reach hot (300degC) water, and they are straight or slight deviated from vertical (not U-shaped, this shape is used for heat pumps to heat or cool homes). The hot water flashes to steam as it rises toward the surface, and the high-pressure steam is used to turn turbines which generate electricity. These areas are found right around the Pacific rim along the so-called Pacific rim of fire (see link below for other areas). Geothermal energy can not only utilise hot water beneath volcanoes but also in hot late Tertiary plutonic rocks, which I have found in the Philippines. In New Zealand, the Wairakei geothermal field has been operating for 50 years. Contact Energy is currently drilling more wells to extend the life of the field and to provide more steam for the power station. Geothermal has the potential to provide more than half of the renewable energy that is required to meet the world's energy needs by 2100. It is an under-utilised resource but, as I pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, geothermal development is expanding worldwide.
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic9062.html

[Graeme]

Congressional Agreement Offers New Life for Geothermal

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he House-Senate Conference Committee meeting on national energy legislation approved sweeping changes to the nation's geothermal energy laws. The provisions, titled the John Rishel Geothermal Steam Act Amendments, represent the first major overhaul of the Geothermal Steam Act since 1970.
The geothermal provisions adopted by the Conference Committee are a dramatic improvement in the law," said Karl Gawell, executive director of the Geothermal Energy Association (GEA). "They will encourage the rapid expansion of geothermal energy use in the West."
We can make real headway towards energy independence this year if Congress moves the energy bill to the President's desk for signature into law this summer," Gawell added. "We will see new power plants that will help ease the West' power crisis, and new direct use projects that will reduce dependence on imported fossil fuels, spring up across the West."

[Brandon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sicophiliac', 'A')nybody think its conceivable to just drill massive holes down close to the upper mantle and generate electricity by having huge U shaped pipes going down there and powering a steam genorator ?

[Graeme]

Brandon, Geothermal wells are drilled with a rotary drilling rig. These are also used to drill for oil and natural gas.

Rotary rigs consist of 4 basic components - engine, hoisting, rotating, mud system.

The engine drives the drawworks, rotary table and mud pump system.

Hoisting system consists of steel wire which raises and lowers drill pipe from a cylindrical reel (draworks) through a pulley (crown block) located at the top of a support structure (derrick).

The rotating system allows the bit at the bottom of the drill string to cut the hole in the ground.

The mud system permits circulation of mud down the middle of the drill string, out through the bit, and back to the surface on the outside of the string.

More information about this system is described here:
http://www.lloydminsterheavyoil.com/rotary.htm
and here:
http://www.petrostrategies.org/Learning ... lling.html

Pictures of the crown, drill pipe, derrick, and drawworks can be seen here:
http://www.punageothermalventure.com/dr ... errick.htm

Definition of terms is described here:
http://www.consrv.ca.gov/DOG/picture_a_ ... itions.htm
and here
http://www.petroleumclub.org.au/schools/glossary.html

[Brandon]

Thanks Graeme!
Yeah, I was totally off base..

I didn't realize one of the big issues with drilling is the well walls collapsing and liquids seeping in. Kind of kills my idea a drilling a 4 foot diameter well with a robot.. And I can see why you can only go so deep with the rotary drilling force being provided from above. I was thinking, feed the robot with electricity, and motors on the robot do the cutting. Oh well..