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Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

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Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby deMolay » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 20:10:23

Good or bad? More unintended consequences. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... ure-chief/
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 20:35:25

Dont like what the computer model tells you? Just change the data or the modeling algorithm.

Science these days makes me sick.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 20:55:15

I already put this story in the Climate Change News Links thread this afternoon.

As I said over there, we should not trust these people in Government. Every day there are more stories of deck stacking, incompetence, or both.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 20:55:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')
Science these days makes me sick.



Best just to give up on science completely and stick to religion, is what I say. :)
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:05:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')est just to give up on science completely and stick to religion, is what I say


That is what the Hoaxers have already done..........

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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby dinopello » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:09:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')
Science these days makes me sick.



Best just to give up on science completely and stick to religion, is what I say. :)


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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:10:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')
Science these days makes me sick.



Best just to give up on science completely and stick to religion, is what I say. :)


Nah, I'll stick with my computers. But I work for finance and engineering companies. 100% accuracy is vital, not this "Oh, I don't like the output, so I'll just change the code or the input" crap. Science is evidently all politics today.

If my calculations were off by one cent for AN ENTIRE YEAR'S DATA, I had to figure out where the problem was. This changing the model because you don't like the outcome is a steaming pile of horse crap.
Last edited by Jotapay on Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:12:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:12:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')Nah, I'll stick with my computers. But I work for finance and engineering companies. 100% accurate is vital, not this "Oh, I don't like the output, so I'll just change the code or the input" crap. Science is evidently all politics today.



Good thing computers don't need science!
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:13:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')Nah, I'll stick with my computers. But I work for finance and engineering companies. 100% accurate is vital, not this "Oh, I don't like the output, so I'll just change the code or the input" crap. Science is evidently all politics today.



Good thing computers don't need science!


We're talking about two totally different things. If you're not being facetious and really don't know the difference, I'll explain it.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:34:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '
')Nah, I'll stick with my computers. But I work for finance and engineering companies. 100% accurate is vital, not this "Oh, I don't like the output, so I'll just change the code or the input" crap. Science is evidently all politics today.



Good thing computers don't need science!



Neither do climate geeks ! LOL
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:34:44

I say no to further farm incentives of any kind and in fact the existing incentives, supports and subsidies should be eliminated.

Let the fallout occur as it will.

The annual rent payments for the Conservation Reserve Program should be eliminated also. The states as they are able and see fit might purchase additional marginal farmland to just remain as fallow wildlife habitat which would quickly sprout into wild grasses, weeds, shrubs and /or trees. Any publically encouraged tree planting program would be a poor investment.

Wallstreet, the banking industry and the auto industry should have been allowed to fail also and out of the fallout would have emerged smaller, more competitive companies for the future. The same with farms for without government monies the big farms would fail and the small farms would have a chance to flourish.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 00:23:14

Get rid of federal government and let states decide how things are going to be handled. The Feds can play over in Iraq and Afghanistan chasing bearded ghosts....
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 01:20:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he legislation would give free emissions credits, known as offsets, to farmers and landowners who plant forests and adopt low-carbon farm and ranching practices.


Would orchard count as 'forests' ? What kinds of practices constitute low-carbon farming ?

google turns up a lot of stuff in the UK and NZ.

And stuff like this from one of those naughty scientists, no doubt.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby deMolay » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 10:07:49

How Much Longer Will Our Chinese Food Be Delivered?....http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/jeff-rubins-smaller-world/how-much-longer-will-our-chinese-food-be-delivered/article1414169/
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 10:14:23

My wife could write a book about how "precise" even "hard science" like chemistry is, in terms of measurements etc... at least what she's seen so far (school, USGS)

That started rocking my world after all of my criticisms of "squishy soft science" like archaelogy and psychology.

That's one of the subtleties I liked about Avatar... they STILL missionaries teaching the natives religion. (the religion of the missionaries in Avatar is SCIENCE, LOL)
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 11:37:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he legislation would give free emissions credits, known as offsets, to farmers and landowners who plant forests and adopt low-carbon farm and ranching practices.


Would orchard count as 'forests' ? What kinds of practices constitute low-carbon farming ?


Yes. I look forward to it. I've grown up watching several someones
do this. Getting between 50/75 dollars the acre. And all the critters
from the nearby Wildlife Refuge are now around my home.

Owls/ducks/geese everywhere. See Nature Conservancy/Wildlife Refuge/Ducks Unlimited/Conservation Acres for details.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby mos6507 » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 11:43:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '
')Would orchard count as 'forests' ? What kinds of practices constitute low-carbon farming ?


IMHO, if they are going to reforest, reforest with edible trees. Maybe chestnut hybrids.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 15:29:13

There are many choices of edible native trees and shrubs. Best to plant a mix of species, as in a "real forest" and not a monoculture. :)
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 15:51:34

I would think if it doesn't look "man made", a "forest" could be a mix of apples, plums, pears, apricots, peaches, cherries, along with various nut trees up here... That would be cool. There are wild spots in kazakhstan like this. You better have a plan on how to protect your fruits/nuts from animals, bugs and disease...

Up where my family owns some land, the property just down the road use to be an apple orchard and the "woods" are full of apple trees and also a lot of native plums. Some of the apples looked pretty decent when i was there in August, for not being thinned. The plums were sweet.
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Re: Farms To Forests Plan Worries Vilsack Dept of Ag.

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 19:36:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'I') would think if it doesn't look "man made", a "forest" could be a mix of apples, plums, pears, apricots, peaches, cherries, along with various nut trees up here... That would be cool. There are wild spots in kazakhstan like this. You better have a plan on how to protect your fruits/nuts from animals, bugs and disease...

Up where my family owns some land, the property just down the road use to be an apple orchard and the "woods" are full of apple trees and also a lot of native plums. Some of the apples looked pretty decent when i was there in August, for not being thinned. The plums were sweet.


One thing I learned from one of our State Foresters, if you are planting trees make sure the species are interleaved in such a way that they can not have the roots of the same species touching. You see when they touch sometimes they fuse, then if one of them gets a disease like Oak Wilt it will infect both trees. Better to have an Oak, then an Elm, then a Hazelnut, then a Maple before you put another Oak in the row. Or any combination.

edited for typo's
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
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