[yellowcanoe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marmico', '
')Consumer credit relative to after tax income is at record highs due to student loans.

[marmico]

Credit card and auto loans are nothingburgers relative to income.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marmico', 'C')redit card and auto loans are nothingburgers relative to income.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marmico', 'C')redit card and auto loans are nothingburgers relative to income.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marmico', 'C')redit card and auto loans are nothingburgers relative to income.

[onlooker]

Outcast and a few others on this site are very good at getting at the economic minutiae. But they are looking at particular trees and not seeing the entire forest. And the entire forest is this. Americans are chronically in Debt and have been so for years. The Debt of the US continues to rise astronomically. Debt has become a necessary prerequisite for economic activity. We have severely neglected our infrastructure, we have created a highly ueven Economy of well educated people in techno computer type jobs and are leaving many other people behind as downsizing and outsourcing have debilitated the Economy ever more. The GDP is deceptive as it is measuring negative outcomes, like more jails, more use of the Healthcare system, more bad events like car crashes etc.

Finally, an even wider panorama reveals even more disturbing realities. A world full of countries and people in dire poverty. And the all important environmental pillar that supports ALL economic activity is shaking, wobbling and degrading from the burden and stress of our huge population in overshoot. But continue on and say Onlooker is just a incorrigible doomer if it makes you feel better.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '
')Finally, an even wider panorama reveals even more disturbing realities. A world full of countries and people in dire poverty. And the all important environmental pillar that supports ALL economic activity is shaking, wobbling and degrading from the burden and stress of our huge population in overshoot. But continue on and say Onlooker is just a incorrigible doomer if it makes you feel better.

[onlooker]

First off, I have not been making predictions. Only stating the information from the perspective that does not try and force an optimistic conclusion unlike some. The only instance was the ETP which I admit was a mistake. Also, I notice Outcast you seem to want to lure me into making predictions. Sorry but no thanks.
Instead, you and others point to current minor details of economic vitality without regard to the points I just made which none of you have refuted. Food stamp usage has been rising as a indicator of the falling fortunes of many Americans

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/h ... y-and-cost
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he program, which aims at helping lower-income families purchase food products, has witnessed a substantial jump in participation and spending in recent years.

[marmico]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ood stamp usage has been rising as a indicator of the falling fortunes of many Americans

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'O')utcast and a few others on this site are very good at getting at the economic minutiae. But they are looking at particular trees and not seeing the entire forest. And the entire forest is this. Americans are chronically in Debt and have been so for years. The Debt of the US continues to rise astronomically. Debt has become a necessary prerequisite for economic activity.

[Newfie]

FWIW I’m with Onlooker. I think the whole GDP and virtually any means of measuring the economy is baseless because the way we make money through false market evaualtions is baseless. It’s nice to win in Monopoly but it counts for jack in the real world.

At some point the money system will reset. Untold trillions will be lost, just like 2008. Only it will be harder to spin the machine back up again, perhaps no doable. That will take a good long while to sort out.

This whole economic game is based on faith and trust, when that fails the game resets. The safest bet is to have paid off real assets.

[onlooker]

Yes Newf. This whole Debt ridden engine is ultimately self defeating. Simply look throughout history at people and Empires overindebted. It has had negative consequences sometimes catastrophic. It is simply postponing the day of reckoning. I realize the logic of tying it to GDP as one would tie it to one's equity and income. But it is not economically sound fundamentally when it reaches levels seen in many OECD countries

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'F')WIW I’m with Onlooker. I think the whole GDP and virtually any means of measuring the economy is baseless because the way we make money through false market evaualtions is baseless. It’s nice to win in Monopoly but it counts for jack in the real world.

At some point the money system will reset. Untold trillions will be lost, just like 2008. Only it will be harder to spin the machine back up again, perhaps no doable. That will take a good long while to sort out.

This whole economic game is based on faith and trust, when that fails the game resets. The safest bet is to have paid off real assets.

[Newfie]

What metric would I use? That’s a wonderful question, seriously, and one I’ve not considered.

Whatever it is it should be tied to tangible and palpable quantities, something that has a whiff of reality.

While it may sounds trite the GDH metric has some merit. Gross Domestic Happieness.

But perhaps some basket of indicators such as:
Longevity
Literacy
Type 2 diabeties incidence
Suicide rate
Divorce rate
Child sexual molestation (happens to be in the news)

Just off the top of my head here, if not out of it.

[kublikhan]

Longevity & Global Health are rising:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople are living much longer worldwide than they were two decades ago, as death rates from infectious diseases and cardiovascular disease have fallen, according to a new, first-ever journal publication of country-specific cause-of-death data for 188 countries.

[onlooker]

Well then how are these actual metrics
The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country

https://qz.com/879092/the-us-doesnt-loo ... d-country/

[noobtube]

A lot of pro-United States, pro-Europe types are going to hate any kind of Gross Domestic Happiness index.

It exposes the fraud that conspicuous consumption means a superior/desirable life.

I would add...

Incidence of drug overdoses.
Incarceration rates/prison cells per capita.
Homelessness rate.
Average household debt/income ratio.
Family formation vs. single mothers.
Military spending per capita.
# of months household can live off savings without income.
Prevalence of chemicals in food supply (% of processed vs unprocessed food).
Likelihood of dental decay.
Incidence of obesity.
Saturation of gambling (lotto, scratch cards, casinos, sports)
Availability to pornography (degeneracy index)
Self-sufficiency of food, energy, clothing (resiliency index)

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'W')ell then how are these actual metrics
The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country

https://qz.com/879092/the-us-doesnt-loo ... d-country/

[onlooker]

Kub,

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', 'A') lot of pro-United States, pro-Europe types are going to hate any kind of Gross Domestic Happiness index.

It exposes the fraud that conspicuous consumption means a superior/desirable life.