[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grabby', 'B')y the way, all these major laws that caused this was brought in under Clintons shift.

[max_power29]

Gangs of new York was a good movie

Historically accurate, it showed how old,extensive, and common voting fraud actually is. Its nothing new at all for people who are not citizens yet to vote. In one scene Irish immigrants who have been in the U.S. for only a few days are told to sign one piece of paper that grants them citizenship and another one that enrolls them in the Union army. They are completely unaware of their fate: One immigrant asks, "Where are we going?" "Tennessee" is the answer, to which he responds: "Where’s that?"

It is also a glimpse into the barbarianism and poverty of ourfuture as well as the past.

Like twain said history always rhymes

[Baldwin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are many parallels to be drawn between Imperial Rome and Imperial America.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'C')razy Horse is turning in his grave! The sacrifice and bravery he and his warriors displayed in the defense of American lands!

[max_power29]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', '
')The enemy is at the gates. No. He has marched triumphantly through the gates, to the fanfare of liberal bleeding-hearts. Peace is maintained only as much as the dollar remains solvent.

[max_power29]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'C')razy Horse is turning in his grave! The sacrifice and bravery he and his warriors displayed in the defense of American lands!

[Loki]

A Shoshone-Bannock Indian elder who I respect very much came out and supported the illegals when they did their big march last year. He spoke at a public rally here in Portland. Something about the illegals being indigenous, and all indigenous peoples should stick together. I was pretty disappointed.

Based on the articles and editorials in Indian Country Today, I would venture to guess that support for illegals is fairly widespread among Indians.
Indigenous sentiment kindles immigration rights marches

[I_Like_Plants]

It's disappointing because they're not indigineous (sp?) to Cascadia, but you gotta admit, after the way the Indians have been treated, could you expect them to feel any other way? Would they be any worse off under "Mexican" rule? The answer is, No, not really, maybe a bit these days but it would be worth it to see Whitey really suffer, you see?

[gg3]

If rant & roil was rock & roll y'all would have a hit single by now!

The solution to illegal immigration is very very simple:

Enforce the existing wages & hours laws!

Dry up the demand, and you dry up the supply. Is Henry the Homeowner going to hire illegals to cut his lawn if he knows he could lose his house? Is Fred the Farmer going to hire illegals if he knows he could have his farm tied up in litigation for years? Is Kelly the Contractor going to hire illegals if she knows she could lose her contractor's license? Hell no.

And as for "jobs Americans won't do," that's what's called a market signal. If the price isn't attracting qualified (i.e. legal) labor, then the price is too low, and it has to bid upward until the slots are filled.

Enforcing the wages & hours laws will also put the market back in balance: the hourly rates will come up to the point where legal workers are doing those jobs again.

Now who do you think has an incentive to distort the market so they can keep hiring illegals at slave rates? Who do you think has an incentive to externalize the benefits-costs of their employees (e.g. health care) onto the general taxpayers whose taxes have been rising while the top 1/10 of 1% has been getting tax cuts..? And who do you think they give their campaign contributions to...?

One more data point for you. The Bush Admin has lately announced that it will be accepting large numbers of Iraqi refugees, if I recall correctly the number was 50,000. Not just the proverbial women & children (who are equally capable of wearing backpack-bombs) but the menfolk too. That is the opportunity of the century for Al Qaeda. Speaking of barbarians.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')Enforce the existing wages & hours laws!

Dry up the demand, and you dry up the supply. Is Henry the Homeowner going to hire illegals to cut his lawn if he knows he could lose his house? Is Fred the Farmer going to hire illegals if he knows he could have his farm tied up in litigation for years? Is Kelly the Contractor going to hire illegals if she knows she could lose her contractor's license? Hell no.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'A')nd as for "jobs Americans won't do," that's what's called a market signal. If the price isn't attracting qualified (i.e. legal) labor, then the price is too low, and it has to bid upward until the slots are filled.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '
')Some of the jobs aren't fit for humans, period. The description of illegal aliens working in meatpacking in the book Fast Food Nation is just hideous, destructive to bodies, horrible to contemplate. And to squeeze just that little further into the black they hire illegals to do it at low wages/long hours/no benefits. All for cheap ground beef.
You could make it a lot more humane of course, but that would crimp the economy, horrors. So meatpackers contribute to canditates that'll loosen OSHA requirements and look the other way on illegals picking up jobs. Meatpacking used to be a lot more easy paced but now it sounds like sides of beef running a frickin' gauntlet the way they get hacked up in those places.
Good luck packing business owners into jail the way things are now. Who's going to ram that agenda through? "Vote against it or you're fired!"

[gg3]

Re. (paraphrase) the meat packing industry used to have humane working conditions but doesn't now... Sinclair ... The Jungle....

So in other words, despite all of our technology, somehow it manages to be "OK" for conditions to regress back to the 1920s. I suppose this is what we get for being governed by a kakistocracy. This is another example of what's meant by "the race to the bottom."

Add to "wages & hours laws" the occupational safety & health laws. And I say this as someone for whom the word "regulation" is usually a cussword.

And you can be sure the economy won't crash as a result of doing so.

Seems to me the ugliest, most twisted people in our society aren't the ones at the bottom but the ones at the top who are so devoid of morals & ethics that they can "use up" humans without the slightest qualm. Speaking of barbarians. Those are the home-grown variety, and their invasion seems to have happened in the stealth of night while no one was even looking.

And what we do about a company such as that major national-brand meat packer that was found to have a couple hundred illegals working in its plant (presumably under inhumane conditions) is: revoke their corporate charter. Shred the f---er and sell off the pieces to reputable business people who know how to earn a profit without making bargains with the devil along the way.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'R')e. (paraphrase) the meat packing industry used to have humane working conditions but doesn't now... Sinclair ... The Jungle....

So in other words, despite all of our technology, somehow it manages to be "OK" for conditions to regress back to the 1920s. I suppose this is what we get for being governed by a kakistocracy. This is another example of what's meant by "the race to the bottom."


Seems to me the ugliest, most twisted people in our society aren't the ones at the bottom but the ones at the top who are so devoid of morals & ethics that they can "use up" humans without the slightest qualm. Speaking of barbarians. Those are the home-grown variety, and their invasion seems to have happened in the stealth of night while no one was even looking.

.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'C')razy Horse is turning in his grave! The sacrifice and bravery he and his warriors displayed in the defense of American lands!

[holmes]

Also in many parts of the new world there was not any indians left! read historical documents. The settlers found entire villages in entire regions with piled bodies filled in the dwellings. It was ghost town in many parts. This idea that it was this huge genocidal binge is absolutely wrong. It was just basically move into empty indian land in many cases. Its the way things go. Obsessing on the past is a mental illness in a cheap enegy utopia. Move forward. and of course hammer the pigs profiting. But in reality we have to deal with where the rubber meets the road. Not some flooty tooty ideoligical enemy. Survival is what is coming. Not writing your congressman or trying to bring down the man. all issues associated with a oil bloat. ahh people will find out soon enough.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'S')eems to me the ugliest, most twisted people in our society aren't the ones at the bottom but the ones at the top who are so devoid of morals & ethics that they can "use up" humans without the slightest qualm. Speaking of barbarians. Those are the home-grown variety, and their invasion seems to have happened in the stealth of night while no one was even looking.

[max_power29]

This may be true Holmes, but I still contend the long dead indians will be laughing there asses off at all the white americans about to "wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered"

[holmes]

Its all about profits now. Nothing else. nationhood. family. community. respect. living. the land. All a distant 3rd.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('max_power29', 'T')his may be true Holmes, but I still contend the long dead indians would be laughing there asses off at all the white americans today waking up "homeless on the continent their fathers conquered"