[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KathyMcMahon', 'I') was trying to disagree with you, as you requested.

I'm afraid I don't find much to disagree with, in what you said, so I'm left a bit embarrassed. I'm definitely over-educated. And puffed up, as Expatriot so fluently and vociferously claimed.

[dohboi]

I don't want to belabor the fat point, but I do want to point out that not all fat is created equal.

If you are slim but eat grain-fattened cows and pigs regularly, you living much more heavily on the earth than a vegetarian who has a few extra pounds on them (unless he/she is many multiples your weight). Ditto with if you fly and drive regularly while fatty walks and bikes.

Basically you should consider your eco-butt to be as big as the car or truck you drive, the plane you fly in, or the animal you eat. That is the real 'fat' that should discuss you (but it is not as visible, and visible cues are so fast, easy and shallow, it is what most hasty choose to judge others by).

[MD]

This thread has gone way too far astray.

Let's please return to the important issue, which are the psychological ramifications of energy depletion awareness and Kathy's efforts to address those matters.

[KathyMcMahon]

@BenjaminTheDonkey - That was a lovely poem. I do thank you for writing it to me.

@Pops - That was such a great song. So true as well. Thanks for sharing it.

@mmasters - $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'm')y saving grace was a good support system, which not many people have and I took it for granted, I don't anymore.

[Expatriot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '
')
It's not the fat. It's what the fat represents.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KathyMcMahon', 'Y')ou can't live against your convictions, either.

...You have to lay out the grid and do your own calculations.

[KathyMcMahon]

A lot of smarts in that post, Pops.

Even an issue of the car you drive, that looks kinda like a no brainer (high mileage per gallon) has to be weighted for some people against the consideration of deteriorating road conditions, as the gov't stops keeping up the road repairs. Good suspension and four-wheel drive is crucial if you where I live. I hadn't considered the issue of deteriorating roads, until I took the Post Peak Living course. And while a bike is great, an electric bike is the only thing that works in my area for all but a precious few super-fit bicyclists, who are still left exhausted as they travel, and prefer to go electric. I love mine, and it rewards you for pedaling hard by a bigger push, so it's still great exercise.

The "gaining valuable skills" piece can't be emphasized enough. Basket weaving might be fun, but I doubt baskets will be the first thing we'll need as things deteriorate more and more. But if you love to weave, and you get good at it, it may have other applications. I thought candle-making was a good skill, but candles made of most materials, gave my DH a terrible headache. If he gets his bees, like he wants, then maybe I'll do it as a hobby with the beeswax, which is the only candle that doesn't made him sick. Maybe not. You have to look around and made educated guesses about what will be needed in the immediate future, and be prepared to adapt.

Who would think putting in swimming pool liners and repairing them would be a line of work, but one friend's Dad is doing quite well at it, because in his neighborhood, people who used to travel for vacation, or send their kids to camp all summer, now can't afford it, so they keep the kids entertained by putting in a pool. No guaranteeing that it will be in demand in 5 years. You wouldn't see swimming pools in my neck of the woods, so it just depends where you are.

Flexible thinking. Bobbing and weaving. Playing ball on running water. Keep your eyes open for what is ACTUALLY happening in your area, not what you THINK should be happening.

[Newfie]

On a related topic there is some discussion about folks suffering a mental disorder due to changes in their ancestral land.

As I recall the research was done on Australian aboriginals and they suffer greatly when they see their land profoundly changed by 'development.'

Unfortunately I can't recall the name they gave the disorder and have lost the link.

But in any case it is something that I can believe through my personal experience.

AH HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Found it.

It's a pretty good read.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')s There an Ecological Unconscious?

[KathyMcMahon]

Thanks for that.

The person who speaks most eloquently about this is Bruce Alexander. http://www.cfdp.ca/roots.pdf

He spent the early years of his professional career demonstrating that addiction isn't caused by drugs, but by social alienation or what he calls "dislocation." He got rats "hooked" on heroin, then he gave them a cool fun place to live (for a rat) with friends and mates and playgrounds. The "hooked" rats got "high" every once in a while, but stopped being "addicted." They lost their funding grant for continued research because it was the era in the USA of "Just Say No" to drugs, and nobody wanted to hear “The key to controlling addiction is maintaining a society in which psychosocial integration is attainable by the great majority of people. People need to belong within their society, not just trade in its markets.”

They wanted to encourage free market capitalism. He got disgusted, and began to study history. But he kept finding evidence that displaced people, (from the Scottish Highlands, and Native Americans/First Nation), with no history of alcohol abuse within their native lands, become alcoholic once they were displaced.

More on "Rat Park" and his other work here: http://globalizationofaddiction.ca/articles-speeches/rat-park.html

I wrote about the connection between his work and Peak Oil here: http://www.peakoilblues.org/blog/?p=1469

[BenjaminTheDonkey]

Addiction Is Bad, M’kay?

Addiction is oh, so confusing,
Gambling, not eating, and boozing;
It’s what bad people do,
What we should eschew,
When choosing a view for our musing.

At bottom is tissue distress
Which nerves signal us to address;
It makes us feel bad
Or even go mad,
How that works is anyone’s guess.

And then when we suffer malaise
We address it in various ways,
But we deal with the threat
By learning to set
The right neurotransmitters ablaze.

When our inside chemistry’s sad
We try things to make us turn glad:
Physical actions
And mental abstractions,
To make ourselves not feel so bad.

Our behavior develops constriction
Into habits formed out of conviction;
If we have a routine
Then what lies between
Our habits and sinful addiction?

Oil use wasn’t addiction
Till we learned about peak oil affliction;
Driving drunk wasn’t bad
Until we got MADD:
Outside forces shape our conviction.

The bad part is not use compunction
But the way that it causes dysfunction
Which the body directs,
Or else from the effects
Of the ruling class’s injunction.

Morals can cause us to stray
From seeing things science’s way;
The thing to recall
From all of this scrawl
Is addiction is bad, m’kay?

[babystrangeloop]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KathyMcMahon', 'T')hank you all for the interesting and provocative discussion and thank you, babystrangeloop, for posting it here and on Twitter.

[dohboi]

If this insane world doesn't drive you crazy once in a while, there just might be something seriously wrong with you.

And the world just got a big step more crazy making:

http://en.rian.ru/science/20110902/166364635.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Russian, U.S. scientists set to study methane release in Arctic

A group of Russian and U.S. scientists will leave the port of Vladivostok on Friday on board a Russian research ship to study methane emissions in the eastern part of the Arctic.

"This expedition was organized on a short notice by the Russian Fund of Fundamental Research and the U.S. National Science Foundation following the discovery of a dramatic increase in the leakage of methane gas from the seabed in the eastern part of the Arctic, said Professor Igor Semiletov, the head of the expedition.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KathyMcMahon', 'S')o I won't keep going on, but you have to have people who you can talk to seriously about these things, and not just on the internet. You have to have someone you trust to share real feelings with, to say "I'm scared for my future and my family's future" then you gutta take some action. Not to take action makes people sick, leaves them with too much anxiety and depression. I don't care what the "topic" is, whether it is kids knocking down mailboxes, or a highway they are planning through town, you have to care. You have to put your foot down and say "this is my patch of land, and I can't see it going to hell any longer."

[KathyMcMahon]

Good point about burning "fossil fuel" candles. Is that an oxymoron?

I just listened to this slide presentation/audio talk, and frankly, it opened my eyes to a number of things.

http://www.fourdegrees2011.com.au/presentations/

I believe the guy said "if we are really good, and stick to our plan, we'll only lose the Maltese Islands and a bunch of Polynesia islands who produce squat carbon. Then showed a map where the coast up and down China and India are impacted by changing sea levels, but the USA's coasts are not, and neither are Europe's. He then makes these remarks about 17 Chinese officials coming to meet with him in Germany (where the have a goal of 40% reduction in carbon emissions) and forming a "club" with Germany and how Australia better find more than one trading partner (other than China) for its coal. He said China has a bunch of coal in its west, but it is "too expensive, NOW" to transport it by rail. That doesn't sound right to me. Does it to you?

At the end, as usually happens, Hans-Joachim Schellnhuber said "I'm hopeful" in that deadpan style. 17 Chinese visit him in Germany, but Australia will barely give him 15 minutes.

Now methane release, my favorite doomer novel plot!

If you aren't reacting, you aren't paying attention.

[babystrangeloop]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KathyMcMahon', 'G')ood point about burning "fossil fuel" candles. Is that an oxymoron?

[Ibon]

Read through the thread and link. Interesting. The part where Kathy talks about how isolation through addiction to digital media causes depression which then leads to more dependency on digital media due to the lack of social skills. Its a dangerous loop. This is aggravated when you get the overshoot peak oil story since your anxiety wants to process this by reaching out to others and discussing the topic. But your immediate physical community is in denial so this channels you into on line forums which then draws you deeper into digital communities in dealing with the psychological impacts of this knowledge.

I think this split between your physical community and on line community has been the source of a lot of psychological dysfunction in coping with peak oil and overshoot. Because you cant build anything with a digital community.....you can only over analyze the problem. And your physical community is in denial to make any concrete adaptations. This over examination along with paralysis to do anything physical about the issue is what drives a lot of folks into despair. I would advise anyone dealing with peak oil to have it serve initially as a catalyst to strengthen your relationship with your local physical community. And only then should you engage any further with this topic or you risk getting stuck in a hyper over examination of the topic with no escape valve into local action. This has poisoned many a poster on this and other sites.

Realizing this at some point is what made me have to pull back from these forums. For me personally I could only come back to engaging in the peak oil topic digitally once I was firmly and organically planted in the project I am involved with here in Panama. I find an hour or two a week more than enough.

There is a great paradox here. We learn real truths about physical and organic perils to our existence via a media that ensnares us into further isolation from physical and organic reality.

This paradox is not only revealed in the peak oil story but in all aspects of our lives. I am deeply ambiguous about digital media and its insidious intrusion into our social lives. The internet and all the gadgets out there are actually drawing us away from the physical and organic reality and offering us a saccharine substitute sweeter than sugar.

Like parasitic mistletoe digital media draws from the vascular system of our innate human need to reach out to others. It cuts off the nutrients that should flow into your physical community and sucks away at your organic humanity.

I installed a microwave antennae here at Mount Totumas Cloud Forest in order to have internet. All the reasons for doing so are clear. Without this communication link I could not run this project or this business. And yet the moment that digital tentacle was installed that reached up into this isolated wilderness it threatened to change the nature of this place. Something of the worlds neurosis found its way insidiously into this virgin place.

I think realizing we are all Bozos on this bus is therapeutic but we really do have a choice. I would say for ones mental health the first and best step is to stop filling up the digital tank with gas...... or at least ration it.

[Newfie]

Didn't anyone here follow Dohboi's link?

Do any of you here have a clue of the ramifications?

Hello......................

[babystrangeloop]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.')..you cant build anything with a digital community...

... I installed a microwave antennae here at Mount Totumas Cloud Forest in order to have internet. All the reasons for doing so are clear. Without this communication link I could not run this project or this business. ...

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('babystrangeloop', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.')..you cant build anything with a digital community...

... I installed a microwave antennae here at Mount Totumas Cloud Forest in order to have internet. All the reasons for doing so are clear. Without this communication link I could not run this project or this business. ...

[papa moose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'R')ead through the thread and link. Interesting. The part where Kathy talks about how isolation through addiction to digital media causes depression which then leads to more dependency on digital media due to the lack of social skills. Its a dangerous loop. This is aggravated when you get the overshoot peak oil story since your anxiety wants to process this by reaching out to others and discussing the topic. But your immediate physical community is in denial so this channels you into on line forums which then draws you deeper into digital communities in dealing with the psychological impacts of this knowledge.

I think this split between your physical community and on line community has been the source of a lot of psychological dysfunction in coping with peak oil and overshoot. Because you cant build anything with a digital community.....you can only over analyze the problem. And your physical community is in denial to make any concrete adaptations. This over examination along with paralysis to do anything physical about the issue is what drives a lot of folks into despair. I would advise anyone dealing with peak oil to have it serve initially as a catalyst to strengthen your relationship with your local physical community. And only then should you engage any further with this topic or you risk getting stuck in a hyper over examination of the topic with no escape valve into local action. This has poisoned many a poster on this and other sites.

Realizing this at some point is what made me have to pull back from these forums. For me personally I could only come back to engaging in the peak oil topic digitally once I was firmly and organically planted in the project I am involved with here in Panama. I find an hour or two a week more than enough.

There is a great paradox here. We learn real truths about physical and organic perils to our existence via a media that ensnares us into further isolation from physical and organic reality.

This paradox is not only revealed in the peak oil story but in all aspects of our lives. I am deeply ambiguous about digital media and its insidious intrusion into our social lives. The internet and all the gadgets out there are actually drawing us away from the physical and organic reality and offering us a saccharine substitute sweeter than sugar.

Like parasitic mistletoe digital media draws from the vascular system of our innate human need to reach out to others. It cuts off the nutrients that should flow into your physical community and sucks away at your organic humanity.

I installed a microwave antennae here at Mount Totumas Cloud Forest in order to have internet. All the reasons for doing so are clear. Without this communication link I could not run this project or this business. And yet the moment that digital tentacle was installed that reached up into this isolated wilderness it threatened to change the nature of this place. Something of the worlds neurosis found its way insidiously into this virgin place.

I think realizing we are all Bozos on this bus is therapeutic but we really do have a choice. I would say for ones mental health the first and best step is to stop filling up the digital tank with gas...... or at least ration it.