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Page added on August 20, 2020
Clouds gather over solar panels
A recent article by Maddie Stone at www.slate.com warns that in the next decade or three, the world will face a novel but entirely predictable problem: what to do with millions of square feet of worn-out solar panels. This problem is especially ironic because solar energy has been sold as one of the most appealing “sustainable” technologies. But when you widen your vision to see the larger picture, you run up against a familiar problem that economists call an externality.
While less than 2 percent of U S electricity is generated by solar panels that convert sunlight directly into electric power, it tends to be one of the more visible types of renewable energy, covering the roofs of businesses and residences and whole acres of ground in sunny parts of the country. It takes a lot of area to generate appreciable power from even the most efficient solar panels, so a lot of silicon, glass, aluminum, and copper is tied up in every installation. And no solar panel lasts forever. Leaks, deteriorating materials, and other age-related problems mean that the design life of the typical solar panel is about 25 years or less. The big question is, what happens after that?
Stone says that conventional electronics recycling can’t handle solar panels, which pose unique problems. For one thing, a huge amount of stuff is involved — one estimate says there will be about 80 million metric tons of worn-out solar panels to be disposed of by 2050. From a recycling point of view, the only easily recoverable materials in used solar panels are the metals, mainly copper and aluminum. The rest is mostly glass, and not pure enough glass to be diverted to many ordinary glass-recycling streams. The net result is that, in the US anyway, a typical panel offers about $3 worth of recyclable metal. But it costs $10 to $12 to recover it. In other words, recycling solar panels is a money-losing proposition. Consequently, most defunct solar panels today end up in landfills, where harmful materials such as lead and even gallium arsenide could conceivably leach into the soil.
Now for the economics. An externality is something that happens in a transaction which affects a third party not involved in the transaction. In the case of worn-out solar panels, the parties immediately involved are the solar-panel makers and the solar-panel users. The makers make money selling the panels, the users make (or save) money getting electricity, and both parties get that warm glow that comes to some people from promoting sustainable energy sources.
But when it comes time to replace the panels, and the old ones get thrown away into a landfill, everybody from now on who might be affected by whatever is in that landfill has a negative externality thrown on them. And if you want to look at it this way, there are also missed-opportunity costs associated with throwing away something that, with clever enough recycling technology, might become the starting point for a useful product.
Stone points out that in Europe, rigorous life-cycle laws require manufacturers of any electronics to take full responsibility for the recycling of their products. This is somewhat idealistic in that it requires manufacturers to stay in business at least until the end of a 25-year life cycle, but I suppose the lawyers have figured out that one too, and it may be one reason that people don’t start a lot of new high-tech companies in Europe these days. However, such a law fixes the externality problem right away, because the manufacturers have to build the cost of recycling into the cost of the new product.
In the US, however, there are no such laws that apply to solar panels, except for the State of Washington, so it’s up to the solar-panel owners to do the right thing with their used solar panels. A lot of the used panels are apparently finding their way overseas to less fussy consumers, but that just throws the externality burden onto those countries.
Stone cites a few research projects that have attempted more sophisticated recycling to extract usable low-purity silicon from the panels. Anybody who knows much about the semiconductor industry knows that it’s a long and arduous road from beach sand to the ultra-high-purity silicon that is used in computer chips, involving energy-intensive and complex chemical purifying steps. It’s a shame to throw all that effort into a landfill, and so if someone could salvage the already-purified silicon from the huge number of outdated solar panels we’ll be dealing with in the coming decades, we would be ahead of the game silicon-wise.
But current supply chains simply are not set up to deal with a lot of medium-purity silicon, and so governments or other entities may need to set up incentive programs to encourage innovative ideas such as these. The one consistent mistake that many ecological doom-criers often make is to neglect the power of human ingenuity.
A good example (good in the sense that it makes the point, not that it has no downsides whatever) is the case of hydraulic-fracturing oil production (fracking). For decades, forecasters have been saying that we were about to reach “peak oil,” meaning that at some point, we will have found all the easy places to get oil from, and after that production will go into an inevitable decline and we’d all better get used to obtaining our energy from someplace else, like solar panels. I’m sure some people forecast that peak oil was going to happen in the early 2000s.
Then along came George P. Mitchell, the son of a Greek immigrant who, after thirty years in the oil and gas production business, developed a set of methods in the 1990s that manage to extract fossil fuels from places that were either regarded as played out, or were not considered productive enough to develop. Thus ensued the fracking boom that enabled the U. S. to regain its place as the world’s leading oil-producing country, where it has been since 2014.
Maybe there’s another George Mitchell type out there who will say to himself or herself, “there’s gold in them thar used solar panels!” and fix this problem without excessive government intervention or subsidies. Or maybe not, but let’s not discount the possibility.
21 Comments on "Clouds gather over solar panels"
peakyeast on Thu, 20th Aug 2020 7:56 am
The first thing is to not exchange them and accept the 80% output during the next 20 years.
The second thing is then to not exchange them and accept the 80% of the 80% output for the next 20 years..
At that time you can probably clean them and condense a new layer of solar cells on them….
Cloggie on Thu, 20th Aug 2020 8:16 am
Solution:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_solar_cell
Cheap and currently at 21% efficiency.
Thin film solar can be used to cover sportsfields, if not in use (60% of the time):
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2019/04/20/solar-carpet/
Or as curtains in glass houses.
In the future roofs of new houses should not be tiled but flat. And covered with thin film solar.
Remember that the active layer of a solar cell is only a few atoms thick. Using and sawing a crystalline silicon wafer is an incredible waste of material. Appropiate perhaps for microchips of a few mm2, but not solar panels of several m2.
Non-issue.
Go Speed Racer on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 3:57 am
OK boys and girls,
lets solve a technical problem.
Apply your little minds, i know
U can do it.
The solution is to crunch up the solar panels and make them into what looks like beach sand.
The way to do that, is a great big iron pipe, rotating much like a dryer drum, with tumble paddles inside.
However, inside is cannon balls. As it rotates, it goes “bang bang bang” as the cannon balls fall down and pulverize anything in the tumbler drum.
After it has run for awhile, there is nothing in there but beach sand, more or less.
So. What next? U can run chemicals thru that sand, and extract your copper, or aluminum, if there is enough by percentage.
If not, dump the resulting “sand” onto some beach somewhere. It’s well established in thoughtful news articles, there is a shortage of sand, humanity uses it all up for various industrial purposes and natural sand is at a premium. So put some back for a change.
BTW, all sorts of glassy materials (broken dishes, broken cups, broken windows) could be converted into sand by this process.
The reason we don’t, is liberals. Liberals
interfere with any natural innovation, they
demand brain-dead uniformity and to never
bringup an interesting thought or concept
that deviates from what they already know.
Also, liberals like to just piss and moan,
and wring their hands, rather than solve a
problem.
Notice it is very important for the liberals
who wrote this “old solar panels” article
to present it as “woe to all, we are doomed”
rather than solve the problem.
Since the liberals don’t want the problem
to be solved, there wont’ be any arc-welding
on that cannon ball tumbler drum. AND
all the glass, broken dishes, and solar
cells will go to the landfill, as usual.
So that the liberals can have a status quo
and keep wailing moaning, but solving nothing.
So now boys and girls you can see how to solve a technical problem (“THINK”)
and then you can see why we don’t
implement the solution (because of the
wicked evil liberals).
Abraham van Helsing on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 4:46 am
GSR basically applies the solar technological knowledge, enshrined in the Holy Bible:
Dust thou art,
and unto dust
shalt thou return
Amen.
Getting rid of silicon and glass (both purified sand) is a non-issue. Consider that the first century Romans had glass windows in their five story buildings. Never heard of a glass polution legacy left by the Romans.
P.S. I notice a worrying trend that GSR is quietly dropping his sofa-burning technology.
Davy on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 5:06 am
“Renowned EU Scientist: COVID-19 Was Engineered In China Lab, Effective Vaccine “Unlikely”
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/renowned-european-scientist-covid-19-was-engineered-in-china-lab-effective-vaccine-unlikely
“Not only is he an internationally known expert in biotechnology and nanotechnology who has had a stellar academic career, but he is also the president of the World Academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies (WABT), an institution founded under the aegis of UNESCO in 1997. In other words, he is a man of considerable stature in the global scientific community. Equally important, one of the goals of WABT is to analyze the effect of biotechnologies – like genetic engineering – on humanity. In his new book, this world-class scientist does exactly that. And what he says is that the China Virus definitely wasn’t a freak of nature that happened to cross the species barrier from bat to man. It was genetically engineered in the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s P4 (high-containment) lab in a program supervised by the Chinese military. Prof. Tritto’s book, which at present is available only in Italian, is called Cina COVID 19: La Chimera che ha cambiato il Mondo (China COVID 19: The chimera that changed the world). It was published on August 4 by a major Italian press, Edizioni Cantagalli, which coincidentally also published the Italian edition of one of my books, Population Control (Controllo Demografico in Italian) several years ago. What sets Prof. Tritto’s book apart is the fact that it demonstrates – conclusively, in my view – the pathway by which a PLA-owned coronavirus was genetically modified to become the China Virus now ravaging the world. His account leaves no doubt that it is a “chimera”, an organism created in a lab. He also connects the dots linking the Wuhan lab to France and the United States, showing how both countries provided financial and scientific help to the Chinese as they began to conduct ever more dangerous bioengineering experiments. Although neither American nor French virologists are responsible for the end result—a highly infectious coronavirus and a global pandemic—their early involvement may explain why so many insist that the “chimera” must have come from nature. The last thing they want to admit is that they might have had a hand in it. Those of us who, early on, argued for a laboratory origin were dismissed as conspiracy theorists. Our articles were censored as “fake news,” often by American virologists who knew perfectly well what the truth was, but preferred to protect China, and themselves, from scrutiny lest they themselves be implicated. Dr. Tritto’s 272 pages of names, dates, places, and facts leaves such apologists with no place to hide.”
Davy on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 5:30 am
The Coming War on China
“The Coming War on China is John Pilger’s 60th film for ITV. Pilger reveals what the news doesn’t – that the world’s greatest military power, the United States, and the world’s second economic power, China, both nuclear-armed, are on the road to war. Pilger’s film is a warning and an inspiring story of resistance.”
https://thecomingwarmovie.com
JuanP on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 6:00 am
“Renowned EU Scientist: COVID-19 Was Engineered In China Lab, Effective Vaccine “Unlikely”
But but Davy, the virus is a CIA virus. All us Sinophiles know this! Dumbass
the board on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 6:20 am
Hypocrite, get out of the US, fool. If you love China so much and hate the US get the Fuck out. Deport juanPPee.
makati1 on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 6:47 am
No shooting war! That would be over in the first 24 hours as China sinks all the US carriers and ships within 2,0000 miles of it’s shores. All the dying US can do is spew bullshit and threats as China laughs and walks away.
makati1 on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 6:50 am
Not to mention the end of most things the US needs to survive like: meds, tech, the dollar, even the materials to make bombs, missiles and other war toys. Rare earths anyone? Amerikans are not too intelligent or they would wipe out the fools in DC to the last corporate whore.
Davy on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 8:47 am
“China sinks all the US carriers and ships within 2,0000 miles of it’s shores.”
Says the fool who said there are 2Mil men under arms on Korean Peninsula. IOW your military background is poor. You live in a fantasy world, wak!
Duncan Idaho on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 9:33 am
Expect the Fat Boy and his enablers to behave like cornered animals.
supertard why u hate me u hurt mah feel bro please stop im a sinophile because they pioneer methods to harvest muzzies so i love china on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 9:37 am
it’s true i don’t like everything else they do i only care they harvest their muzzies
the board on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 6:20 am
Hypocrite, get out of the US, fool. If you love China so much and hate the US get the Fuck out. Deport juanPPee.
zero juan on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 11:01 am
Clown:
supertard why u hate me u hurt mah feel bro please stop im a sinophile because they pioneer methods to harvest muzzies so i love china said it’s true i don’t like everything else…
DT on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 11:35 am
Lets go solar voltaic, then every 30 years or so, we replace the entire build out and start over again. Less we forget we will also need to account for growth in demand that needs to be added into the mix. So the end result will be mountains of garbage we can then dump into our collective incinerators to then continue our clean green, sustainable, renewable, transition into our new happy times of endless energy consumption.
DT on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 12:02 pm
Juan, baby, I don’t hate you
Juan, baby on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 12:23 pm
Thanks Davy, baby. I don’t hate you either. So sorry for cumming in your mouth. It was an accident.
Abraham van Helsing on Fri, 21st Aug 2020 12:53 pm
“WHITE FLIGHT IS REAL”: PUBLICIST SAYS MIDDLE CLASS & WEALTHY ARE FLEEING LOS ANGELES
https://www.infowars.com/white-flight-is-real-publicist-says-middle-class-wealthy-are-fleeing-los-angeles/
“When I first arrived in LA 40 years ago, the town smelled of orange blossoms. Now the streets stink of urine.”
Consider LA gone, like Baltimore, NYC, the list is endless.
Abraham van Helsing on Sat, 22nd Aug 2020 12:07 am
BLM “protesters” invade residential areas, demand white people to hand over their homes:
https://www.rt.com/usa/498710-blm-protest-residential-portland/
‘Wake up, motherf****r!’ WATCH Portland protesters seek ‘support’ for BLM cause with bullhorns & flashlights in residential area
If this won’t start CW2, I don’t know what will.
(Don’t worry, it will)
Go Speed Racer on Sat, 22nd Aug 2020 5:02 am
Yo Abraham, that is amazing.
Your 2 links are exactly the same links
I was already looking at today.
Great minds think alike!
To solve the problem of “wake up MF wake up”,
shoot a Gatling gun out the bedroom window, for about a minute.
And then get some sleep. Don’t forget
to vote Trump 2020.
Davy on Sat, 22nd Aug 2020 5:03 am
“BLM “protesters” invade residential areas, demand white people to hand over their homes…If this won’t start CW2, I don’t know what will. (Don’t worry, it will)”
Cloggo, how many people are involved in this and how widespread? Right, dummy, it is a minor force. It will likely achieve just the opposite of what they desire. It will increase segregation of race and it will lower economic possibilities for blacks in general. Other colors will be losing interest in inclusion of black people in their lives if this keeps up. So, the extremist liberal types like Dumbcan Idaho will actually make the situation worse by promoting this shit.