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Page added on July 15, 2018
Retiring Worn-Out Wind Turbines Could Cost Billions That Nobody Has
This is a story about death and resurrection, and as with all such stories, faith plays its part.
Texas is by far the leading wind energy producer in the United States, generating more than 20,000 megawatts of electricity each year. That is about one-fourth of the nation’s wind-energy production.
We can expect the Texas winds to blow forever, but the colossal turbines which capture the breeze and transform it into electricity will not turn forever. Like all mechanical things devised by man, no matter how clever, they eventually wear out.
But the question is, what will this mean to the landscape and future of the Rio Grande Valley and, in particular, the counties of Willacy and Cameron?
And here, as we confront the end days of a wind turbine, our story begins.
Deregulating the field
When Texas deregulated its electricity market in 2002, it forced power companies, transmission providers and electricity sellers to separate. For the most part, this has worked well for the state and electricity customers, with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, known as ERCOT, ramrodding about 75 percent of the state’s efficient power grid.
Deregulation also was a major factor in the rise of wind farms in Texas, with national and even global companies drawn to the state by its Wild West power-generation atmosphere with no regulatory agency, no permitting and no wind laws.
“It’s like prospecting: You can basically go stake your claim and build your project,” Sweetwater attorney Rod Wetsel, who co-wrote the book “Wind Law,” told MIT Technology Review last fall.
And then, of course, there are the federal subsidies which make wind energy financially possible.
Wind energy production tripled thanks to the Obama administration’s aggressive green energy agenda, going from 8,883 megawatts in 2005 to around 82,183 megawatts today, which is about 5.5 percent of the nation’s total power generation.
The congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimates the total cost to taxpayers of the wind production tax credit between 2016 and 2020 will be $23.7 billion.
Whether those subsidies will continue under the Trump administration remains to be seen.
One big question is how much money is being set aside for the inevitable decommissioning costs associated with removing aging, unprofitable and just plain worn out wind turbines now whirling across the horizons of Cameron and Willacy counties.
Wind turbine: The life and death
The life span of a wind turbine, power companies say, is between 20 and 25 years. But in Europe, with a much longer history of wind power generation, the life of a turbine appears to be somewhat less.
“We don’t know with certainty the life spans of current turbines,” said Lisa Linowes, executive director of WindAction Group, a nonprofit which studies landowner rights and the impact of the wind energy industry. Its funding, according to its website, comes from environmentalists, energy experts and public donations and not the fossil fuel industry.
Linowes said most of the wind turbines operating within the United States have been put in place within the past 10 years. In Texas, most have become operational since 2005.
“So we’re coming in on 10 years of life and we’re seeing blades need to be replaced, cells need to be replaced, so it’s unlikely they’re going to get 20 years out of these turbines,” she said.
Estimates put the tear-down cost of a single modern wind turbine, which can rise from 250 to 500 feet above the ground, at $200,000.
With more than 50,000 wind turbines spinning in the United States, decommissioning costs are estimated at around $10 billion.
In Texas, there are approximately 12,000 turbines operational in the state. Decommissioning these turbines could cost as much as $2.3 billion.
Which means landowners and counties in Texas could be on the hook for tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars if officials determine non-functional wind turbines need to be removed.
Or if that proves to be too costly, as seems likely, some areas of the state could become post-apocalyptic wastelands steepled with teetering and fallen wind turbines, locked in a rigor mortis of obsolescence.
Recycling or resurrecting?
Companies will of course have the option of upgrading those aging wind turbines with new models, a resurrection of sorts. Yet the financial wherewithal to do so may depend on the continuation of federal wind subsidies, which is by no means assured.
Wind farm owners say the recycling value of turbines is significant and recovering valuable material like copper and steel will cover most of the cost of decommissioning.
“The problem is, wind companies have argued vehemently that the cost of money set aside should net out the salvage value of turbines,” Linowes said.
“If it costs $200,000 to take down a turbine, but once you take it down, you strip out the copper, the steel, the resellable components and sell them, then really you can make a profit,” she says of the industry’s pitch.
“So a company will say, ‘So as to cost, subtract that benefit, so rather than $200,000 for a turbine we should only set aside $60,000,’ so there’s a fight over how much money should be set aside,” she said.
In Texas, with virtually no regulatory oversight of wind farms, there is no requirement for wind companies to set aside any funds for decommissioning.
Yet extracting valuable materials from the turbines is not as easy as it sounds. For example, the copper in the wires used to transmit power from the turbine to the grid will have to be stripped of its plastic insulation, a task which would entail serious labor costs.
Also, the sheer size of the steel casings which provide the base of the turbines would take specialized cutting tools to reduce the steel to manageable or transportable chunks.
And the blades themselves are a high-tech wonder of composite material, which most experts agree cannot be separated into its component materials and is thus worthless for recycling.
“The blades are composite, those are not recyclable, those can’t be sold,” Linowes said. “The landfills are going to be filled with blades in a matter of no time.”
Faith in doing the right thing
In Cameron and Willacy counties, the operational wind farms are Cameron Wind, Los Vientos I and II, Magic Valley Wind Farm and the new San Roman Wind Farm. The turbine count for these is approximately 400 operational turbines.
At a cost of $200,000 each, decommissioning these turbines when their working life expires would cost $80 million.
At Duke Energy’sLos Vientos I and II wind farms in Willacy County, there are 191 wind turbines. Across Texas at various locations, Duke has around 900 wind turbines which are operational.
“At each of our wind sites, for example, built into the construction and operational costs is also a plan for decommissioning,” said Tammie McGee, director of corporate communications for Duke.
Duke Energy, which has been in the power business for more than 100 years, is relatively new to the wind industry. McGee said Duke began investing in wind power generation about a decade ago.
She said although Duke hasn’t been around long enough to decommission turbines, plans are in place to “repower” aging wind site locations by upgrading – resurrecting – the equipment.
“What does happen a lot of times, and is happening now around the country, is sometimes instead of decommissioning they will ‘repower’ a site,” she said.
“That involves replacing the turbines on top of the towers with new technology,” McGee added. “In the atowers, too, and put up new and more modern towers.”
If a site is properly located, the winds will still be there, making repowering an attractive financial option since the costs of site selection and development have already been covered.
Most wind farms, which pay landowners on average around $8,000 a year per turbine, have contracts with renewal clauses that stretch out to 50 or 60 years.
If Duke decides to shutter a power plant, including its wind farms, the company is committed to restoring the site to its previous state, she said.
“Regardless of fuel type, whether its gas or coal or wind or solar, once a power plant is no longer in service we restore the land to how it was before we got there,” McGee said.
Calls seeking comment from two other wind energy companies operating in Cameron County, Apex Clean Energy which operates Cameron Wind and Acciona United States, which runs the San Roman Wind Farm near Laguna Vista, were not returned.
Unlike Duke Energy, some of the smaller wind farm companies operating in Texas, with fewer financial resources, may be tempted to just walk away when aging turbines no longer spin a profit.
Linowes believes such moves may begin occurring even before wind turbines outlive their useful life as manufacturing warranties on the big turbines expire.
“At what point does the cost of maintenance tip over to the point it’s not worth maintaining a turbine?” she said. “We’re in something of an unknown or uncertain territory.”
As wind turbine manufacturing has improved, the length of warranties on these products has decreased dramatically and today the terms of most cover between five and 10 years.
It seems paradoxical that warranties would become shorter as products become better, but many wind turbine manufacturers have found a valuable revenue stream in selling extended warranties, similar to companies which sell appliances to consumers.
“It could be a very ugly situation in the next five years when we see turbines need work, and are no longer under warranty and not generating enough electricity to keep running them,” Linowes said.
43 Comments on "Retiring Worn-Out Wind Turbines Could Cost Billions That Nobody Has"
twocats on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 8:02 am
gosh this article is just a lot of fun. paging Clogged Brain Pipe, paging…
so many funny lines in this article it would be hard to highlight them all.
“Also, the sheer size of the steel casings which provide the base of the turbines would take specialized cutting tools to reduce the steel to manageable or transportable chunks.
And the blades themselves are a high-tech wonder of composite material, which most experts agree cannot be separated into its component materials and is thus worthless for recycling.”
yes, it definitely makes you wonder. haha ahahhahahahahahahahahah hahaha
Jef on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 8:03 am
Just wave the wand and ….blingggg…. renewzit.
Sissyfuss on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 8:55 am
C’mon Clogcyclable, they’re saying the blades are toast after a decade or two and have to be landfilled then. How wasteful can that be? Surely the technology is there to remedy this giant sinkhole of material and financial loss. And yes, I do enjoy calling you Shirley.
Cloggie on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 9:14 am
“So we’re coming in on 10 years of life and we’re seeing blades need to be replaced, cells need to be replaced, so it’s unlikely they’re going to get 20 years out of these turbines,” she said.”
God what a stupid remark. It’s like saying that one needs a new car when the ash trays are full.
Rule of thumb: blade is not equal entire windmill. Got that, dear author?
One thing is true, Europe has indeed more experience with wind power, but hardly with decommissioning, since the life span of wind engines is much longer than 20 years.
Here is a Danish windfarm that was decommissioned after 26 years, for economic reasons. All machines were still standing when they were taken down:
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/worlds-first-offshore-windfarm-vindeby-decommissioned/
Here is another example from Holland: 4 machines taken down after 24 years. The owner NUON claims “economic end of life”, but if you watch the initial pictures, you see the real reason: one of the blades had come off this 0.5MW machine, which NUON used as an excuse to write all 4 machines off, in an age of 5MW machines, although they easily could have replaced the blade and the turbines could have continued to operate for many decades.
The video shows the dismantling proces in detail, the entire operation takes 3 weeks and all-in-all perhaps involves one man year and heavy equipment, together a few hundred thousand euro for the removal of 2 MW capacity.
The author seems to arrive at similar figures after reading the article and it shows that 10 billion is the sum for all 50,000 turbines of the US. Big deal.
Texas, 20 GW, 2.3 billion decommission cost, recycling value not included. New price 20 GW would be something like 20,000 times 2 million = 400 billion. So we are talking here about 0.5% of the total cost of operating a turbine.
Non-issue.
And then there is the life span. My favorite numbers:
Eiffel towers exists for 130 years or so. Engineers say it will stand for another 3 centuries.
Here is my personal favorite, the corn mill of Zeddam in Holland, from 1440 or older, before America was ever heard of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT5vNljXVk
Last year I visited the mill and verified for myself that this mill is solid enough to survive the United States (in its present shape).
My gutfeeling tells we that the most expensive part of a wind turbine, namely the tower, has a life span of far larger than 20-25 years, think 50 or perhaps 100 years, just like early signs are that solar panels could produce reasonable amounts of energy after 40 years.
In all these cases economic life is shorter than technical life. You can drive a well-maintained T-Ford today, as you can verify on Youtube, but nobody does, as they are uncomfortable to todays standards.
Cloggie on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 9:16 am
Forgot to post the decommissioning of the Dutch wind towers:
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/05/14/nuon-dismantles-offshore-wind-farm-in-the-netherlands/
Cloggie on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 9:21 am
Regarding recycling of wind turbine blades… no worries, they are working on it:
https://www.windpowerengineering.com/mechanical/blades/recycling-wind-turbine-blades/
https://www.livingcircular.veolia.com/en/industry/how-can-wind-turbine-blades-be-recycled
https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6166&context=etd
Spoiler: grind them to dust and mix them with concrete.
Davy on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 9:37 am
“Regarding recycling of wind turbine blades… no worries, they are working on it:”
LMFAO, neder, when have you ever said anything but “it will” or “working on it” “Long term” WTF what about “NOW”?
Ghung on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 10:22 am
And if wind farms aren’t properly ‘retired’? They won’t result in a deluge drowning whatever settlements lie downstream when they fail. They won’t leak radiation into the surrounding areas. They won’t deteriorate to the point where they are spewing methane into an already juiced atmosphere. They won’t leave behind huge heavy metal ash ponds polluting water tables for centuries.
They’ll just sit there until they deteriorate and collapse, like millions of other abandoned concrete and steel structures all over the world, becoming a resource for the triage and salvage societies we are likely to become.
Bob on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 10:23 am
The article left out the costs of competitive companies that need to decommission oil wells, underground pipelines, nuke plants; need I say more? Those industries are rife with pollution costs and decommissioning costs that they have NEVER met, ever. So now everyone is complaining about the wind industry. Give me a break, please!
Hello on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 10:44 am
45min played. 2:1 for the negro team of france. Will europe be defeated by negros? Walking the streets of any european city paints a sad picture.
MASTERMIND on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 10:44 am
Half Of Americans Believe 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/half-of-americans-believe-911-conspiracy-theories_us_5804ec04e4b0e8c198a92df3
Bob Jones on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 11:48 am
And, that’s what Europe has so richly deserved.
Their racial hatred for the world does not entitle it to the world’s resources.
I say to Europeans, enjoy living in the 13th century again when you couldn’t rape the planet. Tell me how that works out for you by a message in a bottle when your societies go back to eating each other, sleeping with animals, and worshipping SKY DADDY to make the rain come.
Outcast_Searcher on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 2:27 pm
Minimind worries about the things Americans believe, even with all the total crap he constantly claims is true.
Hysterical.
Outcast_Searcher on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 2:28 pm
The author lost credibility in the title when stupidly claiming that no one could have any wealth to pay for future issues.
No one. Sure.
Outcast_Searcher on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 2:29 pm
Big yawn.
Wind is already highly successful. If it costs a bit more and decommissioning needs to be funded up front as part of the life-cycle, so be it. Problem solved.
Next?
Go Speed Racer on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 3:12 pm
Windmills so totally suck. Dumb liberal idea.
The same folks who claim to love the environment ,
commit ugly vandalism of entire vista-views putting
their ugly-ass windmills everywher. without compensating nearby residents OR the rest of us
have to look at their ugly pieces of shit.
Talk about taking a spray can and writing “FUCK” on
some national treasure.
Fuck the liberals and their windmills.
HELLO Mr “hello” poster. Oh U don’t like the
Muslim negro invasion of Europe? Welll they are doing
that globally. Sick horrifying old white bag power
bitch nags. Hillary, May,Angela Merkel, these
intensely sick mental patient bitches
want to flood every country on Earth with
starving fly-covered illiterate illegal aliens
And why? To say Fuck You and push you
right out of your own home,
That’s what wicked nag bitch Hillary and
Angela Merkel want, is they hate men
and want to destroy the countries the
men created.
Furthermore they already accomplished
their goals, just that we are fighting back.
The ONLY way you can fight back is
to support Donald Trump, give $40 a month
recurring. HE is the only one fighting back.
The ugly old man-hating bitches are
called “globalists” and only Trump is
opposing them. Your ultra-liberal media
such as CNN lies and distorts everything
to make sure you don’t know what’s
going on and keep you voting liberal.
A liberal vote is a globalist vote.
And listen to Alex Jones “InfoWars”
using your iPhone podcaster.
And get news from honest conservative
websites such as Townhall, BizPacReview,
and NewsWars.
And the you will start to understand who
did it, how they did it, and your faint feeble
options for fighting back.
And finally then, Mr “Hello” poster, you will
understand why your precious France is
now filled with window-smashing,
machete-wielding, coal-black Muslim negroes.
Antius on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 5:09 pm
For offshore wind, the monopiles will need to be removed for recycling. These are heavy steel tubes, rammed into the sea bed – they are the heaviest steel component exceeding the mass of the tower. Leaving them where they are would pose a hazard to shipping and would waste a lot of steel. At some point, a ship will need to be built to remove and transport tyese structures back to shore.
Makati1 on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 5:46 pm
These are the pyramids of the future. Concrete pylons topped with a rusting hulk and broken wings. There will be no sentient life to see them and wonder what they are.
Ditto for the eroding hulks of the big cities, the overgrown gravel paths that wind around the countryside, once mighty highways but no one will be there to see them. I
In a few millions years, even those relics of human kind will be gone, but the pyramids will likely still be there, if Egypt is still desert. Maybe not.
Davy on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 5:58 pm
3rd world is telling on himself. You are a feeble little old man wasting away just like the minds eye in your comment. Lol
Harquebus on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 6:56 pm
Only when global debts begin to be repaid can renewable advocates claim victory. Until then, their claims are just rhetoric.
Currencies are proxies for energy. Economic growth requires surplus energy production. Pursuing economic growth via fiat currency creation in the face of diminishing energy returns has created the biggest debt bubble in history with no way of paying it back.
“Windmills are too dependent on oil, from mining and fabrication to delivery and maintenance and fail the test of “can they reproduce themselves with wind power?””
“Not only would windmills have to generate enough power to reproduce themselves, but they have to make enough power to run civilization.”
“If the energy costs of intermittency, back-up conventional plant, and grid connection were added to the “cost” of windfarms, the EROEI would be far lower than current EROEI studies show.”
http://energyskeptic.com/2015/wind/
“Manufacturing wind turbines is a resource-intensive process. A typical wind turbine contains more than 8,000 different components, many of which are made from steel, cast iron, and concrete.
One such component are magnets made from neodymium and dysprosium, rare earth minerals mined almost exclusively in China, which controls 95 percent of the world’s supply of rare earth minerals.”
“There’s not one step of the rare earth mining process that is not disastrous for the environment.”
http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/big-winds-dirty-little-secret-rare-earth-minerals/
WIND DEVICES INDUSTRIAL INFRASTRUCTURE
http://sunweber.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/prove-this-wrong.html
“Renewable energy sources are often advocated for their low CO2 emissions at point of use, but the overall product lifecycle is often forgotten about completely. In addition, many chemical products are needed in mining operations, leading to severe long-term pollution.”
http://climateandcapitalism.com/2016/09/30/are-renewables-really-environmentally-friendly/
“The short-term solution to our problems is the long-term cause of our problems: economic growth
The long-term solution to our problems is the short-term cause of our problems: reduced consumption”
“Every country has similar economic problems and not one leader anywhere in the world connects the dots and publicly acknowledges the root cause, even after they leave office: declining energy surplus a.k.a. energy extraction cost + debt”
“The only possible permanent solution is rejected by the belief systems of 90+% of citizens: population reduction”
“The scientific theory that explains the relationship between the economy, energy, and climate is ignored by everyone that should understand it”
“The people who deserve the most respect and admiration get the least: scientists”
http://energyskeptic.com/2017/rob-mielcarski-you-know-you-are-in-trouble-when/
“First, we could count on a backup infrastructure of dispatchable fossil fuel power plants to supply electricity when there’s not enough renewable energy available. Second, we could oversize the renewable generation capacity, adjusting it to the worst case scenario. Third, we could connect geographically dispersed renewable energy sources to smooth out variations in power production. Fourth, we could store surplus electricity for use in times when solar and/or wind resources are low or absent.
As we shall see, all of these strategies are self-defeating on a large enough scale, even when they’re combined. If the energy used for building and maintaining the extra infrastructure is accounted for in a life cycle analysis of a renewable power grid, it would be just as CO2-intensive as the present-day power grid.”
“In conclusion, calculating only the energy payback times of individual solar panels or wind turbines greatly overestimates the sustainability of a renewable power grid.”
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2017/09/how-to-run-modern-society-on-solar-and-wind-powe.html
Sissyfuss on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 7:20 pm
Excellent post,,Harquebus. I agree that we are using fiat currency to replace the missing portion of EROIE that has vanished along with high potency, easy to extract FFs. Bubbles are inescapable. Dieoff is inescapable. Damn these interesting times.
deadly on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 7:21 pm
They’ll all wear out and all fall down.
Good and good riddance.
JuanP on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 7:22 pm
Delusional Davy “You are a feeble little old man wasting away …”
Projecting some more, Exceptionalist? I f there is one person with a feeble mind here that would be you! Don’t you think?
onlooker on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 7:34 pm
Great post Harquebus. In a nutshell, both the population and expectations of modern humans will be downsized as we were incapable of doing it voluntarily
JuanP on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 7:47 pm
The first gift I bought my wife was a solar Casio calculator made in Japan. It is a few yards away and still working perfectly and looking like brand new almost 30 years later (both my wife and I are extremely careful people who hardly ever break anything). It cost us US$50 in Uruguay and is a great calculator; you can still read the print after three decades of constant use. I have never had a solar panel go bad on me; it is almost always the electronic parts of systems that fail first. My experience with windgens in marine environments is not quite as good. I expect windmills to be serviceable for a long time, decades esentially. But, in today’s world there is an economic incentive to replace older, smaller machines with newer, bigger ones.
MASTERMIND on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 7:49 pm
nabomber Ted Kaczynski continues to fret over technology, doesn’t regret years of spreading fear
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/unabomber-ted-kaczynski-continues-to-fret-over-technology-doesn-t-regret-years-of-spreading-fear/ar-AAA4xP2?ocid=ob-tw-enus-677
MASTERMIND on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 8:01 pm
The Unabomber does’t have shit on my manifesto
https://imgur.com/a/pYxKa
TommyWantsHisMommy on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 8:41 pm
LOL..i love these articles. No one wants to talk about when this crap gets old (like grandma) and what we are going to do with it (home?) them… These things also take a ton (tons) of concrete, steel, diggers, and all the fossil to get erected..yeah that will all be there all nice and cheap in 20 or 40 years or 60 years.
MASTERMIND on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 9:18 pm
‘Never underestimate human stupidity,’ says historian whose fans include Bill Gates and Barack Obama
Harari expressed concern about the ability of populist leaders — a group he described as “selling people nostalgic fantasies about the past instead of real visions for the future” — to solve today’s biggest global problems.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/13/never-underestimate-human-stupidity-says-historian-and-author.html
LaRue F Allen on Sun, 15th Jul 2018 10:00 pm
Who pays for the shout down of nuclear power plants?
george on Mon, 16th Jul 2018 12:21 pm
Give me straws or give me death .
Wes R on Mon, 16th Jul 2018 12:43 pm
Yes- let’s stop building energy generation, and cars, bridges, buildings, ships– because one day they might be old and break down. If anything might age and break, it’s not worth it to innovate and invest and employee
people. Make it illegal!
Antius on Mon, 16th Jul 2018 6:02 pm
Slightly off subject, I wrote in a previous thread about the possibility of an ‘electron economy’ as the dominant energy carrier in a world in which fossil fuels produce a declining portion of net energy.
http://peakoil.com/production/worlds-oil-cushion-could-be-stretched-to-the-limit-iea-warns
By electron economy, I mean a system in which the majority of energy is consumed as electricity, preferably directly off the grid as it is being generated from a primary source, like a wind turbine, PV panel or nuclear reactor. This is by far the most energy efficient option for most energy consumers. A train or tram for example, drawing electricity from a catenary, is capable of converting primary electrical energy into motion with an efficiency exceeding 90% using AC motors and regenerative braking. Between the powerplant and the wheels, only one tenth of the electrical energy is lost as heat at various stages. Grid electric power (without storage) is both very efficient and cost effective, provided the right infrastructure is in place.
Ideally, we would power as many end uses as possible, using grid electric power, provided directly from a pollution free electric power source. Electricity storage is very expensive. It is not only capital intensive, but also wastes large amounts of energy in storage losses. Backup powerplants are often cheaper, but consume large amounts of fossil fuels. The ideal situation, would be to power all energy loads using grid electricity drawn through the grid directly from renewable energy sources, without the need for storage or backup. Under this situation, renewable energy would be able to provide all of the functions carried out by modern civilisation, at a cost no greater than fossil fuels.
I want to discuss some ideas I have for making this work. I will go into details later on.
Patrick on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 1:40 am
Interesting
Go Speed Racer on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 2:47 am
It’s time to Legalize Freedom
Truthbomber on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 9:07 pm
Dumb ass white people worrying about electricity, while jews and feral people are annihilating you. You will be extinct soon. It’s actually for the best.
Cloggie on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 9:18 pm
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/solar-freezer/
Promissing possibility for space heating: large water sack in crawl space under your house. Plus heatpump and solar collectors.
Average annual COP=6 (!)
Heatpump 8kW, annual power consumption 2000kWh = 8 solar panels (ignoring storage and losses)
Cloggie on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 9:27 pm
Official site: https://solarfreezer.nl/technische-info/
Typical storage volume: 11 m3
Medium: water-ice
Practice experience:
https://www.solarfreezer.nl/media/bestanden/SolarFreezer-verslag-winter-2018.pdf
Because the system allows for ice formation, the thermal storage capacity is very big.
MASTERMIND on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 9:45 pm
Indulge me for a moment. Imagine, as I do, that America’s going to go right on collapsing. Who’s going to stop it? After all, in the last week alone, all three branches of government have been captured, at last, by extremists. The judiciary, with the nomination of a justice who’d overturn Roe vs Wade, taking the US back half a century. Congress, whose Senators happily tweeted independence day greetings from…Moscow. And, of course, the executive, in which a demagogue continued his assault on reason, democracy and truth.
All three branches of government captured mean that there are virtually no checks and balances left, save slender hope here or there, and so American collapse is likely to continue unabated. Into what? Into…well, no one knows. Theofascism, maybe. Klepto-authoritarianism, perhaps. Pick your poisons — now shake up the cocktail mixer.
https://eand.co/five-ways-life-is-going-to-change-for-americans-under-authoritarianism-f655f0cb89af
Cloggie on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 9:53 pm
“and so American collapse is likely to continue unabated. Into what? Into…well, no one knows.“
I do: Yugoslavia/Donbass scenario.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Uuqv3kogc
https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2018/06/11/cw2-brewing/
(thanks for providing me with all the links)
MASTERMIND on Tue, 17th Jul 2018 9:58 pm
Clogg
Europe is on pace to collapse before the US..Just saying..Don’t make me cite the data from the world bank.
Cloggie on Wed, 18th Jul 2018 1:05 am
Europe is on pace to collapse before the US..Just saying..Don’t make me cite the data from the world bank.
You have no data from the WB showing that Europe is going to “collapse”, let alone before the US.
There is currently a right-wing Renaissance underway in both the US and Europe. We are going to have a 1989 of our own and overthrow of the leftist 1968-generation…
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/all-in-the-family-tv-show/images/c/c7/AllFamilyMeathead.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121109202456
… and Frankfurter Schule groupies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrx6xU_bwxM
And of course the political overthrow of The Tribe and their “free media”.
You should move to NYC now and avoid the rush.
#PaleOfSettlement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement
Makati1 on Wed, 18th Jul 2018 1:32 am
Cloggie, MM has not realized that articles are “opinion” not fact. To get a good picture you need a lot of opinions from many sources. Hundreds will sharpen the picture but will still not be fact. Fact is what happens, not what may happen.
That said, there are facts that support the slide of the Us into the 3rd world, which I point out here.