Economic Collapse Leads to Nuclear Event

25 Comments on "Economic Collapse Leads to Nuclear Event"

dave thompson on Sun, 3rd Jan 2016 10:19 pm 



I don’t know what to make of this guy.

makati1 on Sun, 3rd Jan 2016 10:41 pm 



I don’t bother to watch most videos. But the subject is likely to happen in a real crash. What would happen if the electrical net across the US were to be taken out by an EMP event or a sun flare and be down permanently? 100+ nuclear plants in the US would soon be out of diesel for their generators and then…???

Not only the reactors themselves, but the thousands of tons of spent fuel in glorified swimming pools that would heat up and boil off the water protecting them.

“The U.S. has 71,862 tons of the waste,…”

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42219616/ns/business-us_business/t/us-storage-sites-overfilled-spent-nuclear-fuel/#.Von3i1JyPd4

Are you down wind of a nuclear plant?

dave thompson on Sun, 3rd Jan 2016 11:26 pm 



Makati, just being on planet earth is downwind,BWAHAAHAA!!!!!!!

GregT on Sun, 3rd Jan 2016 11:40 pm 



dave,

I suspect that the ‘distance’ downwind will be a somewhat important determining factor. Hardly a laughing matter regardless, IMO.

Ralph on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 5:46 am 



Looking at the history of nuclear accidents from Winscale to Fukushima it is obvious that

1. No physical design can be 100% safe against catastrophic failure.
2. Human error, hubris, short cuts and failure to follow adequate maintenance are endemic in all major projects.
3. Entropy never sleeps. Everything breaks eventually, and only small changes in net energy (climate change) dramatically shorten the MTBF.
4. When a major accident occurs the people on the ground are slow to accept the full scale of the incident.
5. Emergency procedures are not introduced fast enough because politics gets in the way.
6. The media do not raise the alarm fast enough, or are actively suppressed (Even the free media have few scientifically literate journalists)
7. TPTB would never acknowledge the true extent of a major radiation leak, because it would be a predicament not a problem.
8. Every accident has dozens of tin foil groups declaring a massive cover up of imminent human Armageddon

and as a result

We will only know when the worst has happened when people start vomiting in the streets.

Davy on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 6:08 am 



We can look at every continent and see the comparative advantages and disadvantages. The worst positioned has to be Asia because of its population and recent destructive growth. No other variable trumps population. Asia has an ecosystem being destroyed to add to the overpopulation. That is strike two. The second worst position would be the industrialized west with its population densities depending on unsustainable consumption through globalism. All areas have these pockets of globalism that are doomed.

I would say the best positioned would be some of those locations in the southern hemisphere that are not too overpopulated. There are few of those left. Russia stands a good chance of something emerging other than European Russia that is industrialized with large population densities. Canada will be overrun by Americans and Mexicans in a dramatic Nafta hell. I feel sorry for Canadians but like Europeans as states fail population movements will not be controllable in the longer term.

Soon depending on the speed and duration of this descent I suspect boarders will close and this will kill globalism. Globalism and its status quo must have free movement of people, goods, and wealth. A vain attempt at democracy and capitalism as we now know them in their distorted form will attempt to survive. Eventually this all will have to adjust to environmental and social realities.

The key question is time frame. If this plays out over 20 to 30 years in a long emergency the question and answers are very much different than 3-5 years. I hope for a long emergency of crisis and attempts at adaptation. My “doomstead” is planned around a long emergency but ready for a short hard collapse. No doomstead is going to do well in a short violent collapse. These likely efforts to save globalism will ultimately fail as all those “laws of the minimums” are breached and a minimum operating level that sustains globalism is breached. This will likely be a dangerous and destructive time with no precedence.

This event and or process depends on so many factors that predicting it is useless. There is no historical precedence. All we can do is study the variables that will be part of the unknowable equation. The key point again is time frame because time frame is what humans live in. We are time dependent creatures.

All creatures have internal clocks but ours are both internal and external. We live in an anxiety of the future that effects our quality of life now. We also choose the current known over the unknown of an uncertain future. Most live in a denialist mental survival mode that discounts and diminishes bad things that may and must happen. We all try to have hope over death and the worst of entropy.

We are all going to die and we know most species go extinct. We know ecosystems travel through succession marked in epochs. We humans with our dysfunctional existential dualism want immortality of our identity but are constantly reminded that everything turns to dust even mountains.

Rodster on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 6:21 am 



“We can look at every continent and see the comparative advantages and disadvantages. The worst positioned has to be Asia because of its population and recent destructive growth. No other variable trumps population. Asia has an ecosystem being destroyed to add to the overpopulation. That is strike two. The second worst position would be the industrialized west with its population densities depending on unsustainable consumption through globalism. All areas have these pockets of globalism that are doomed.”

China is currently down to or below 40% of it’s fresh water supply because it ruined the other 60% percent from manufacturing. And let’s not forget that China wants to build a few hundred low cost Nuclear Power Plants in the next decade.

What could possibly go wrong with that? Oh, I know, can you say Chinese drywall? Ghost cities, factories, ghost malls that are beginning to fall apart?

makati1 on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 6:31 am 



dave, as the prevailing winds for the Philippines has to cross about 7,000+ miles of the Pacific from Central/South America, they will have had time to dissipate any pollution. The Philippines has no radioactive materials to worry about. No nuke plant. The winds from China do not blow in the direction of the Philippines either.

Yes, the residual radiation may get here eventually, or not. Does it matter? Better than living a few hundred miles downwind over land, I would think.

The prevailing winds in the US blow from West to East and there are at least 9 on the West coast. They really get concentrated after you get past Denver.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=C111US0D20151022&p=map+of+nuclear+plants+in+the+usa

I used to live in PA.

JuanP on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 7:29 am 



GregT, Good point. We only have a couple of nuclear plants in all of South America and we are half a world away from most of the nuclear plants in the world. Most of the air flow in the atmosphere is separated in two systems, one in the North and another in the South. People in the South will experience less radiation, they will experience it later, and will have been warned before it gets there.

Where are Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima? In the Northern hemisphere, and most of the radiation from these accidents stayed there.

The same will happen in the future. Most of the nuclear bombs and reactors are in the North, the further South one is the better off you’ll be. I think this is pretty obvious.

JuanP on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 7:32 am 



Mak, Davy is surrounded by nuclear plants, nuclear bombs, and nuclear targets. He lives smack in the middle of the highest concentration of them in the whole world. What could possibly go wrong? LOL!

shortonoil on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 7:50 am 



We have no idea what the long term genetic impact will be? Nature’s experiment will a tool making animal could be coming to an end!

dave thompson on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:01 am 



I don’t care where you live, the nuke issue will always be a problem, for all creatures on planet earth, forever.

bug on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:22 am 



Short, like the quote “Nature’s experiment with a tool making animal…..”

Ralph, when people start vomiting in the street, most won’t know, as always they will blame the situation on someone else, but it will be to late.

JuanP on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:22 am 



DaveT, I have no children and no longer care about other people’s children either. Humans will get what they deserve, but If I can enjoy a few more years living in peace with my wife in the South, I will be grateful for that and I’ll take them.

I completely agree that in the long run the whole planet is fucked, but that would still be the case even if radiation didn’t exist, and it is not my problem. I accepted a long time ago that nobody can do anything about saving the biosphere, it will be completely destroyed by human apes one way or another no matter what. This is the main reason I had a Vasectomy instead of producing biological offspring. The nuke issue is one of the main reasons why I am building my Permaculture farm in Uruguay, rather than the USA or Costa Rica. The Southern hemisphere will be better off in my lifetime and that is all that matters to me.

makati1 on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:25 am 



dave, but for some, they are increasingly important because most in the Us are past their design lives* and living on patches and hope. It wouldn’t take much for, say, the Madrid Fault to take out a few near the Mississippi. Bad news for the surrounding area and east.

*http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/15/news/economy/nuclear_plants_us/index.htm

Sometimes it is good to live in a country too poor to have a nuclear industry, and too smart to want one.

PracticalMaina on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:27 am 



We better place real alternatives right next door to our nuclear plants so when SHTF we can waste large amounts of renewable energy to somewhat contain the poison. We could use the method that the farms of this country were built on, big old water pumping mills out of a sears catalog, pumping water up to some sort of collection device for storage.
Ironic and sad how much more sensible we used to be about power.

Davy on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:43 am 



People with low exposure to NUK poison and war dangers will likely starve as quickly as some die from NUK related dangers get irradiated or bombed. Global collapse is an equal opportunity reality. We can be sure if enough NUK’s go critical the global system will become paralyzed with fear, food will not get distributed and states will fail. I know my dangers and except them.

dave thompson on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:52 am 



Yes people in the southern hemisphere could possibly survive for a few more time frames. I have my friends and family where I am here in the Chicago region in the north and would rather stay. I am thinking BAU can possibly continue another ten or twenty years. I am 60 with no kids, living a very frugal life and watching it all unfold. We shall see.

curlyq3 on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 11:03 am 



Howdy … I post this with a warning to all my comrades here … very few have went as far into “The Valley of the Real” regarding nuclear as I chose to do … it is the most lonely place due to it’s frightening and evil nature … I trust that most here are “Doomers” so you all have ventured into the “Nuclear Valley” to some degree … the best way to learn about this topic is to be oriented to it’s location … so a very good place to start is by using this great tool created by Jim Lee … he spent a lot of time with this and it will keep you busy for hours … I started by researching the locations of nuclear reactors and nuclear test sites around the globe … it is fascinating to be able to click on the icons and read about that particular site … it gets you started if you have the interest to do further research … the nuclear interests are found by clicking on the “Pollution” tab … let me know if this is helpful … there is so much more regarding nuclear … Thank You Davy, onlooker, and mak for your response to my posts
(mak … I have so many colleagues from the Philippines … they are all great folks and plan on returning there when they are done with the grind of “Work”)
curlyq3

http://climateviewer.org/3D/

curlyq3 on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 1:42 pm 



Howdy … regarding the climateviewer link … go to this YouTube link where Jim Lee gives good introduction to his creation … it is a valuable tool and he is a pretty cool guy … curlyq3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxqqsy4Gvqs

makati1 on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 7:20 pm 



curlyq3, yes, most Filipinos(as) want to return as soon as they can. I suspect many will return when the SHTF in the US, if they can. They are mostly there to earn a buck or two and return home asap.

My Philippine friend and business partner’s sister is in California, with her family, but she is returning to the Ps in two years because she doesn’t want her daughter in an American public high school and exposed to the American youth’s lack of morals, discipline or respect. (All still a part of life and culture here in the Ps.) ^_^

curlyq3 on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 8:47 pm 



makati, I am a retired Registered Nurse … all of my Filipino(a) colleagues are RN’s except for one and his wife is an RN and they operate a very nice elderly care home … it is amazing how many good RN’s the Philippines produces … I believe I have heard that it is like twenty percent of all the RN’s in the world ! … all RN’s have to demonstrate clinical competency and the hospital environment in the Philippines is much less litigious … RN programs in the USA have a lot more limitations on the student nurse when working in the clinical settings (hospitals) … litigation is a significant part of the high cost of medicine in the USA … to successfully complete an RN clinical regimen in the Philippines the student must perform just about every procedure a licensed RN is expected to perform in a proficient manner numerous times … I would always joke around with them by saying all the good nurses have left their country !

curlyq3

makati1 on Mon, 4th Jan 2016 9:30 pm 



curlyq3, A lot of them have, but there are a lot of very competent ones still here. My dentist was educated in the US about 30 years ago and came back here to start her own clinic about 20 years ago. It is very successful. She has six other dentists working for her here in two clinics. And cost is ridiculously low even though the quality of work is better then in the US. Root canal and porcelain crown, TOTAL cost $150. The last one I had done in the Us 8 years ago cost about $1,200 and my dentist here replaced it when it broke 3 years ago … for $150.

Specialist doctors here are also US educated but only charge $15 TOTAL for an office visit. Again as good as any in the US. And on and on… LOL.

The Ps has a very good retirement visa program for us older folks. Many from the US are retiring here as there is an abundance of caregivers and they are inexpensive. I have no need yet, but then again, I am only 71. ^_^

curlyq3 on Tue, 5th Jan 2016 10:20 am 



Hello Davy, … Thank You for all of your time and quality posts here … our water supply here in Kanab Utah is dependent on what flows down Kanab Creek … there is the Jackson Flat Reservoir here in town which functions as a catchment from Kanab Creek and other residual precipitation … population currently at about 4000 … there is a good mix of folks here … a significant number of retired people with good skill sets to draw from (not a lot of weasel lawyers and bankers !! HA HA ) my next door neighbor is a retired Boeing machinist and has an incredible shop on the back of his property … if I wanted to borrow a hammer he could likely make one for me ! … the lathe he has is huge … regarding the nuclear problem, the only mess north of Utah would be the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Richland WA … that place will catch fire and burn eventually and down winders beware … the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station (45 miles west of downtown Phoenix AZ) is a little less than 300 miles as the crow flew away from it ! … the operators get all the water needed for cooling the fuel from sewage treatment facilities … it is the only NPP in the world that uses this type of water source to maintain primary heat sink functionality … what could go wrong ? HA HA !! … better keep flushing those toilets in Phoenix !!

curlyq3

Davy on Tue, 5th Jan 2016 10:56 am 



Curly, my last trip out there was with my wife back 5 years ago starting in Grand Junction down to Moab. We did all the local Moab stuff then went to Antelope valley and on to Page. We then shot over to Monument Valley, 4 corners and finally up to Mesa Verde. We camped out of our compact vehicle. It was around Memorial Day period I remember and we hit perfect weather. It was once of my better trips. I love the area. I remember being in my first sandstorm between Page and 4 corners.

That is a great area but you have significant challenges you must organize for. I would say water and food are the greatest. Avoiding population centers is another. It sounds like you have a good community located and a good head on your shoulder. If there is any assistance I can give you with my doom and prep experience please ask. I hope you will continue to contribute. We need more people like you here.