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Page added on December 11, 2015
In Asia, King Coal Hard to Dethrone
Philippines’ dependency on the fossil fuel illustrates a challenge in Paris climate talks
MANILA—The Philippines is set to open 23 coal-fired power plants over the next five years to meet rising electricity demand, illustrating the challenge climate-talk negotiators face in crafting a deal that reduces carbon emissions.
Competition from natural gas and environmental regulations have crippled the coal industry in most of the developed world, bankrupting companies and snuffing out jobs in the U.S. and Europe. But in the Philippines and in dozens of other developing countries, coal remains an essential fuel for building more prosperous societies.
The commodity is cheap and abundant, supplying about 40% of the world’s energy, according to the International Energy Agency. But coal is also responsible for a third of all carbon emissions, and its use is projected to rise—especially in Asia.
Environmentally minded leaders, especially from the West, want to curb coal use. But many developing countries, aware that it fueled the industrialization of the U.S. and Europe, argue that coal is key to their future too.
Manila’s building bonanza will make it Asia’s most coal-dependent country by 2035 as a percentage of its energy mix, according to IHS Energy Insight, an energy research company. Government officials say the booming economy needs the new coal plants to offset declining domestic reserves of natural gas.
ENLARGE The government’s position is at odds with the country’s self-image as environmentally progressive. A third of the country’s power is now generated by renewable sources, chiefly geothermal and hydroelectric.
Filipinos became acutely conscious of climate change after scientists blamed global warming for the intensity of Typhoon Haiyan, which killed over 7,000 people and ravaged the country’s central provinces two years ago.
At the climate talks in Paris, the Philippines is leading a 20-nation group, the Climate Vulnerable Forum, comprising countries such as Bangladesh, Ethiopia and Vietnam that are most at risk from rising temperatures. The group is arguing for far-reaching emissions cuts that would limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit)—less than the 2 degrees Celsius the talks have targeted.
Before arriving in Paris, President Benigno Aquino III pledged the Philippines would reduce its carbon emissions by 70% by 2030.
“We all have to do as much as we can,” Mr. Aquino told Asia-Pacific leaders in Manila in November. “Countries have to contribute the maximum.”
The Philippine government said in its Paris pledge that the 70% cut would be conditional on financial assistance and the transfer of green technology from more developed nations, but that ambitious reductions could be made in various sectors, including energy.
Yet, according to IHS, the Philippines will nearly triple its fleet of coal plants by 2020, while doubling the amount of CO2 to 70 million metric tons a year by 2025.
Manila is failing “to balance climate goals with the need to supply” rising demand,” said James Ooi, an IHS director.
The Philippines is hardly the only developing country depending on coal.
Vietnam plans to double its coal plants to 40 by 2022 to tide it over until a generation of nuclear generators comes on line. Thailand is boosting its use of coal as part of a security strategy designed to ease the country’s dependence on natural gas. Indonesia is encouraging more coal-fired plants to support its mining industry.
ENLARGE China added an extraordinary 39 gigawatts in new coal-fired capacity last year, according to official data, enough to power millions of homes. Even Japan is building dozens of new coal plants in the wake of the Fukushima disaster, which led to Tokyo’s closure of nuclear plants.
But while the use of coal in countries like China and India has yet to peak, the commodity is projected to be a smaller proportion of their total fuel mix in the coming decades. In contrast, the Philippine government doesn’t dispute an IHS forecast that around 60% of the country’s power will come from coal by 2035, up from 42% today, under current plans.
Officials and energy executives say it is unfair to criticize a country whose 100 million people represent 1.4% of the world’s population, but contribute what the U.S. Energy Information Administration says is just 0.3% of global emissions.
“The Philippines’ carbon footprint is small by any measure you look at,” said Erramon Aboitiz, CEO of Aboitiz Power Corp., whose plants mainly use coal and renewable energy sources. “Our problem is affordability of power—and the only way to address that is through coal.”
The Philippines has some of Asia’s highest electricity prices because the government, unlike others, doesn’t subsidize the power sector. Rates are therefore a highly sensitive political issue.
For a developing economy where a sixth of the population still isn’t connected to the main power grid, “the priority has to be to assure there is enough supply,” not curbing emissions, said Francisco Viray, a former energy secretary.
ENLARGE Some environmentalists disagree. Yeb Sano, a former government climate negotiator turned activist, said vulnerable countries like the Philippines, an archipelago of 7,000 islands, must lead by example.
“I am very disappointed that the country is building dozens of coal power stations when it has so much potential for renewable energy,” Mr. Sano said. “The coal and oil lobby is very strong.”
One possible solution to help replace the Philippines’ dwindling natural-gas supplies, which produces far less CO2 than coal, is liquefied natural gas. First Gen Corp. , the only major Philippine power company that doesn’t have coal plants, is in talks with potential partners about building a $1 billion LNG terminal, said Giles Puno, the company’s president.
Mr. Puno also urged the government to provide incentives to exploit untapped hydropower and geothermal resources.
Mr. Aboitiz agreed that only the government can shape the Philippines’ energy framework to ensure it becomes more friendly to the environment.
“We have to survive in the market and be competitive, so right now it has to be coal,” he said. “But the government can change that.”
45 Comments on "In Asia, King Coal Hard to Dethrone"
rockman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 6:41 am
“We have to survive in the market and be competitive, so right now it has to be coal,” he said. “But the government can change that.” And exactly how is the govt going to change the energy market and make the uncompetitive “competitive”? Hmm…maybe big govt subsidies using some of that big pile of taxes they collect from all those wealthy Philippine citizens and businesses.
Same story that will be repeated around the world: we’ll do whatever we can to halt climate change…as long it doesn’t hurt the nation’s growth. As seen even true for an island nation that has more to lose then most countries.
I’m sure mak has much more to add to this story.
Davy on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 7:31 am
I read a comment earlier how the 3rd world dirt farmer doesn’t need electricity. They don’t need running water. Dirt poor farmers will survive. I was told only the rich west needs these things. 23 new coal fire plants in 5 years gives us another story.
makati1 on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 8:05 am
Davy, they will never have any electric. The above dreams come by way of the WSJ and an energy investment adviser that has dreams for a future that will never happen.
Most of the electric here is consumed in the cities and the towns, not where most of the people live. “…a developing economy where a sixth of the population still isn’t connected to the main power grid,…” In the US that would be over 50,000,000 Americans NOT on the grid.
The Us has over 500 coal fired electric plants for ~310,000,000 consumers.
The Philippines has about 12 for ~100,000,000 consumers.
Oil fired: 1
NG: 3
Diesel: 5
Wind: 4 (+4 under construction)
Solar: 2 (+3 under construction and 2 more approved)
Geothermal: 10 (+4 proposed)
Hydro: 29 (+1 under construction)
For a total of ~66 electric power plants in the Philippines.
There are 7,000+ power plants in the US.
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=65&t=2
“Officials and energy executives say it is unfair to criticize a country whose 100 million people represent 1.4% of the world’s population, but contribute what the U.S. Energy Information Administration says is just 0.3% of global emissions.”
Clean up your own backyard before you try to put down another, Davy.
Rodster on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 8:29 am
“The Us has over 500 coal fired electric plants for ~310,000,000 consumers.
The Philippines has about 12 for ~100,000,000 consumers.”
So what you’re saying is it’s hypocritical on the US’s part because we have MOAR and yet your response shows the same level of hypocrisy by saying it’s alright because we have less than you. Good job !
It’s the same excuses I hear and read regarding the Chinese and their monetary policies and the way they’ve built their “FAKE” eCONomy. It’s OK for them to print $30-35 trillion worth of monopoly money to prop up their system and it’s going to be great when they rule the financial world with their reserve currency because the “end justifies the means”. Equal hypocrisy.
The bottom line is we are all in this mess together and the problems will never be solved if one side says to the other, fix your stuff first. The solution needs equal cooperation from all sides.
Davy on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 8:30 am
Sounds like the usual double standards of someone who wants to paint the picture of the noble 3rd world’er. We are supposed to believe this fantasy man lives tenaciously close to nature and in a harmony This story is far from reality as this scathing article of Asia exposes with its blind unrestrained growth.
We get the usual reaction of how bad the west is but we know this. The point is Asian’s are in no position to point fingers when they are the source of most of the new growth in emissions. That may change with a likely Asian economic decline but currently this is the case.
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 9:59 am
Mak: You may be right about the guilt blaming when it comes to the NA and EU’s excessive use of energi, but why couldn’t you have an understanding for the west’s problems with south east asia’s unlimited population growth. The Phillipines could be just the perfect place to live, if you just wern’t so many and counting.
If it wasn’t for the imigrants from the south, both NA and EU would have a lot less inhabitants.
Mak, do you you believe that we could overcome future crisis if we wern’t so many.
Kenz300 on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 10:54 am
China made great progress in moving its people out of poverty…….one reason was slowing population growth…..
If you can not provide for yourself you can not provide for a child.
Climate Change, declining fish stocks, droughts, floods, pollution, poverty, water and food shortages all stem from the worlds worst environmental problem……. OVER POPULATION.
Yet the world adds 80 million more mouths to feed, clothe, house and provide energy and water for every year… this is unsustainable…
Birth Control Permanent Methods: Learn About Effectiveness
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/birth_control_permanent_methods/article_em.htm
—————
India –Climate Change is real and will impact all of us…………
Climate Change Blamed for Southern India’s Worst Flooding in More Than a Century
http://ecowatch.com/2015/12/04/india-chennai-floods/?utm_source=EcoWatch+List&utm_campaign=b5a283874c-Top_News_12_4_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-b5a283874c-86023917
Plantagenet on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 10:56 am
Theres nothing to worry about. The Paris climate treaty will outlaw the temperature going above 2°C.
Problem solved.
apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 10:57 am
Even though there are plenty of dirty deeds and guilty pricks out there, from the big picture view we are ALL in a trap.
THE CARBON TRAP BY PAUL CHEFURKA
“Whether we realize it or not, everyone living on planet Earth today is caught in what I have come to call the “carbon trap”. The nature of the trap is simple, and can be described in one sentence:
Our continued existence depends on the very thing that is killing us – the combustion of our planet’s ancient stocks of carbon.
This unfortunate situation was not intentional, and is no one’s fault.
The trap was constructed well outside of our conscious view or understanding.
Its design came from our evolved desires for status, material comfort and security.
We recognized its seductive promise long before we knew enough science to discover its hidden hook.
It was built with the best of intentions by well-meaning scientists and engineers, whose knowledge of the consequences was both incomplete and clouded by their own evolved desire for a better life.
Most of us, even those who are aware of our predicament, distract ourselves by creating and admiring elaborate and luxurious appointments for our carbon-clad prison.
Many who can see the bars spend their time dreaming of ways to slip through them into the world outside – a world that they can see but never reach.
Those who are fully aware of the trap also understand that we now need it to survive; that leaving it (if that were even possible) would be as fatal as staying inside. We are victims of what complex systems scientists call “path dependence” – where we came from and how we got here puts strict limits on what is now possible for us to do.
One of the things we can’t do is simply open the door and leave. Even the fact that our carbon-barred prison is now on fire can’t change the cold equations. We are condemned to wait here until the walls burn down, when a few soot-blackened survivors may stumble out into the blasted and barren landscape left behind by our self-absorbed construction project.
This is why I believe that the one quality most needed in the world today is compassion.”
http://regeneracy.org/2015/08/reblog-the-carbon-trap-by-paul-chefurka/
rockman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 10:57 am
mak – “The Us has over 500 coal fired electric plants for ~310,000,000 consumers. The Philippines has about 12 for ~100,000,000 consumers.”
Exactly: your country has a lot of catching up to do if it wants to live the “American dream” as so many others in the world desire.
Get ‘er done, bubba. LOL.
Boat on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 11:13 am
apeman.
THE CARBON TRAP BY PAUL CHEFURKA
By far your best post yet. You even refrained from abusive language and telling some poster how stupid they are. Did you buy some pistachio and have a human moment?
apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 11:21 am
Beijing continues to suffer from pollution, but Delhi’s air quality is one-and-a-half times worse
The annual average air pollution in Delhi is more than twice as bad as Beijing’s
“While Beijing residents continue to struggle through a period of unusually high air pollution, similarly high smog levels are a fact of life for many in different parts of the world where Beijing-style warning systems aren’t in force.
In the past week, during which Beijing’s air pollution has been at its most severe, air quality has been one-and-a-half times worse in Delhi, India’s capital, The Hindustan Times reports.
These figures are based on the particulate matter, or PM 2.5 levels, in both cities. The ‘2.5’ refers to the particles’ diameter of 2.5 micrometres or less. These tiny particles are considered to be the most deadly, as they penetrate much further into the lungs than larger pollution particles – seriously increasing the prevalence of respiratory diseases and the risk of lung cancer.
In the last week, the air in Delhi has had an average PM 2.5 concentration of 230.9 micrograms per cubic metre. By contrast, the average in Beijing over the same period was 139.8 micrograms.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/beijing-pollution-smog-air-quality-environment-delhi-india-china-a6768611.html
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 12:13 pm
Apne,Rock,Plant, Kenz,Davy : The real problem is that we are too many people in this world, and we need a solution to that problem.
All the guys and girls in this forum recognises this problem, but they won’t talk about it – they are just yelling at it, while they continue discussing their favorite secundary problem, namely excessive FF consumption.
Get your self together and face the real problem that is over population.
rockman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 12:24 pm
claman – I agree except that I don’t call it a problem (which might have a potential solution) but a predicament with no solution but better and worse ways to respond to the situation.
apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 12:34 pm
claman, overpopulation is self correcting. Apes may have technology, but it is just a setup for a bigger correction later. It’s like with the reindeer; after a few mild winters there are lots of them, then a harsh winter comes along and puts the balance right again. For humanity, the harsh winter approaches. Most likely the final one.
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 12:50 pm
Rock :If you agree that over population is the main reason for the worlds problems today (in combination with an overall too big FF comsumption), why don’t you point it out.
If you don’t then you are just an other kind of denier, that are cherry picking the problems of you favour.
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 1:00 pm
Apne: Peakoil is a self correcting item as well as the climate has it’s own dynamics, and we are discussing them.
But over population is for some reason not on the the menu.
The whole paris talks are of no value if we don’t adress overpopulation.
Boat on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 1:11 pm
clanman,
You haven’t been around to long because population has been discussed many times. And oil is the primary subject of the site is why we spend more time on it.
A few ideas.
Most countries value children much higher than anything else. Even in war like the middle east, populations continue to grow.
Sustainability is not the key issue to the world like it should be. Politics and religion is the main source of a culture change if there were to be one. At this time you could not get voted into office if cutting population was a main plank in your plan for sustainability.
The world is slowly waking up to climate change but as you should notice nobody is talking about having less babies.
You are probably aware that developed countries would be losing population if immigration wasn’t allowed. In the US even right after the economy took a big hit and millions were left unemployed we still kept adding between 1-2 million immigrants per year.
I think even small policy changes could have a big effect. Like no tax breaks for having a child. Why do we subsidize a problem. It would not so much be the the money that would cause less births but a single from government that sustainability is now on the radar and further changes need to be made. If sustainability became a top issue the conversation would have changed and pave the way for many other changes. The big trick is how politicians can mesh that message with religion. Are religious leaders willing to go against the bible for example where it clearly says to spread your seed and grow the faith.
These historical head winds are tough to change.
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 1:27 pm
Boat said :You are probably aware that developed countries would be losing population if immigration wasn’t allowed
And that is exactly what I want.
You want, I assume, that we should be more and more people of all kinds, And where BOAT do you set the limit?
I am not talking charity or mercy, I’m talking survival of The tripe
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 1:42 pm
Boat, india has tried with some kind of bribe to women who wouldn’t give birth to an extra child , but it didn’t work out.
There has been plans to offer general “social security”to the elderly so that parents didn’t have to rely on children to secure their older days. That was not accepted
There is no way, except in the mind of possitivly thinking western woman, to stop indians, africans ,indonisians and chinese to have an awfull lot of children in the future.
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 1:58 pm
claman, the Paris talks are a fucking joke. A big circle jerk, so politicians can appear to be doing something (they are not) and NGO employees can justify their paycheques, air fare, accommodations and maintain their status. The whole thing is sponsored by high polluting corporations. It’s all so phoney. The entire species is pretending. TPTB are pretending to do something and the sheep are pretending to believe them. Not exactly a dramatic Hollywood ending to the species eh? No worries, there will be a flurry of violence right near the end.
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 2:04 pm
2400 Coal-Fired Power Plants Planned Despite Climate-Friendly Pledges
http://loe.org/shows/segments.html?programID=15-P13-00049&segmentID=5
Boat on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 2:05 pm
clanman,
You cant control individual countries but if the developed countries set the example by making sustainable populations a main talking point and focus the world conversation would change. Young people that have access to the web would get the message.
The world is much faster at change than it ever has been and will only speed up through technology in communication. People are smart, they just need to be exposed to information. There is no easy solution when 15% of the population has no electricity but if you look at computer and phone expansion around the world change could certainly happen fairly quick. Quick as in a generation or two.
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 2:14 pm
Indian economy suffers $3 billion loss from recent floods-Aon Benfield
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/indian-economy-suffers-3-billion-loss-from-recent-floods-aon-benfield/articleshow/50127519.cms
India’s Need for Coal-Fueled Growth Complicates Paris Climate Summit
http://time.com/4131236/india-coal-climate-change-paris-summit/
No Free Lunch
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 2:51 pm
Boat you are beginningg to sound just as stupid as ****.
“You cant control individual countries but if the developed countries set the example by making sustainable populations a main talking point and focus the world conversation would change.”
As I see it the white population in general has been modest in having kids. Or do you disaggree
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 2:56 pm
claman, you’re wrong. Boat has always sounded stupid. Maybe just never noticed before?
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:12 pm
OK Apne, Boat won’t say, then I will just ask you.
If the world suffers from OP, then what would you do ?
I know its a difficult question, but you never seem to back out on though one. So what do you say?
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:24 pm
My own suggestion is to let child mortality back into the picture, let the local diseases have their run, and some how let it be global, so that even we, in the western world, get the full punch of the disaster. Just like in the days of the black death. I know it’s not popular, but others on this site talks about the great die-off, and I thought I could specify it little
Dredd on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:32 pm
The king of king tides will do the job not so nicely (The King of King Tides Approaches).
Boat on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:33 pm
clanman,
The color of skin has nothing to do with population. Japan has the worlds 3rd largest economy and their population is declining.
In the US around 1900 95% of the population were farmers. Now it is less than 5%. As countries develop farming becomes more efficient and cities fill up.
Underdeveloped countries have a much larger farming base with much less technology so they have many children to get the crops in. Just like the US did in 1900. There are no short term easy fixes.
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:35 pm
Dredd you are covard hiding behind your words
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:40 pm
Like I said, it’s self correcting. Apes are overly impressed with their technology. Antibiotics are only about 70 years old and evolution is about to render them useless. Child mortality will be making a comeback in a big way and all the money in the world will be of little use against infection. Poor nutrition will make it worse and that one is coming back too. Uninterrupted, proper nutrition throughout childhood may be the biggest single factor in increased life expectancy starting in the late 19th early 20th century in wealthy countries. Food shortages are already increasing in many places. Collapse – starts on the periphery and works towards the center.
Antibiotic use in food fuels resistance to vital drugs – report
Review on antimicrobial resistance warns that antibiotic use on animals outweighs that on humans in many countries, posing great health risk
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/08/antibiotic-use-food-fuels-humans-resistance-vital-drugs-report
10 million people facing food shortages as drought grips Ethiopia
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-10/drought-and-food-shortages-in-ethiopia/7015688
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:46 pm
Boat, take a look at Lagos in Nigeria, and I’ll guess you won’t find that ecologicaly sustainable. Count their numbers in millions and how many they will be with in a short term of time. And then guess where they will go when times get rough.
Kenz300 on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:52 pm
Too many people and too few resources……
Manila – 20 Million and Rising.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuDDvYhmCTE
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 3:57 pm
Embrace Sodomy – Reduce world population
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 4:24 pm
kenz, I look at your video and I didn’t see one single under nourished child, I didn’t hear the screams of just one sick child, although they should have been there seen from an european point of view. Maybe this Is the kind of people that will take over the world when the whites can’t do it anny more
claman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 4:26 pm
apne, your suggestion is so way out of line
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 4:51 pm
claman we need to get everyone to STOP fucking in the front hole, so we can save humanity.
Newfie on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 5:12 pm
Mak makes sense to me.
makati1 on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 8:05 pm
LOL, Thanks Newfie. I only point out that the Philippines is not the problem, Western consumption is. Now that the pollution and destruction of the West is getting to the end point, they want the rest of the world to stop progressing and stay in their servitude mode so the West doesn’t have to pay the price. The US” ~4% of the world’s population uses 25%+ of the world’s resources. Greed and arrogance defines America today.
The West is going to suffer the most as the end approaches. Death in the 3rd world is an everyday occurrence. A few more will hardly be noticed except to those who are close. However, when it is someone in the West who is dying from that cut last week in the garden because the antibiotics do not work or just weren’t available, it will be another story. Ditto starving to death because of the last drought or flood or sudden temperature change that killed the garden before the veggies were ready to be used. THOSE are everyday events in the real world, as many will soon experience in America and it will be a shock to them like no other.
GregT on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 8:10 pm
“Dredd you are covard hiding behind your words”
So what does that make you Claman? Dredd has put forth a far greater effort with his words, than you have.
Apneaman on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 8:40 pm
mak, what will they use for fertilizer once the international trade system ends? Maybe the population of Manila will stroll out to the fields every morning for a dump.
Philippines Imports by Product Sub-Chapter in US Dollars – Fertilizers – Yearly
http://www.indexmundi.com/trade/imports/?country=ph&chapter=31
makati1 on Sat, 12th Dec 2015 12:05 am
Yep,, they do import fertilizers, but, I could ask the same question of any country today. What happens when the US cannot produce/distribute/use the fertilizers and pesticides they use by the millions of tons every year? Here, most of the subsistence farmers do not buy fertilizers/pesticides. No money, no purchase. Again, who will suffer most?
Fertilizer use in 2013 =
The US (kilos per hectare): 132.9
The Ps (kilos per hectare): 71.5
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.CON.FERT.ZS
Pesticide use is harder to get statistics on as that lobby has more money. But, I did see that the US uses a lot. LOL
“The EPA reported that 4.9 billion pounds of pesticide products were used in the United States in 2001, which is equivalent to 4.5 pounds per person.”
That number is way up by now, I am sure, But it was ~20% of the world total that year. 20%!!
http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Pesticide+Use+Statistics
So, we will go back to ‘honey buckets’ and peeing on the crops if we want to live. Nothing new about that. LOL
BTW: Thanks for the chuckle about the Manila’s inhabitants strolling out to the fields for their morning shit. By then Manila will be run by the rats/roaches and all those ‘strollers’ will be back on their family farms. Shorter walk. ^_^
Davy on Sat, 12th Dec 2015 7:01 am
Mak said “I only point out that the Philippines is not the problem, Western consumption is.” This thinking is the problem we have global. The same old “it is not my problem it is the other guy”. Anymore we are all the problem. On this site we have plenty of “I know the truth and they don’t”. Then it turns into a round of personal attacks. Yes, I will use personal attacks when attacked. I have been known to pounce on climate deniers and cornucopians who are just plain ignorant. But then again who am I to judge who is ignorant but then again sometimes the ignorance is just so in your face you can’t help pouncing on it. I am making an effort to stop the personal attacks on those who bash my country and by extension me. Some here who have done that have moderated and I have moderated. I think this is a positive.
I think we have a great board to spread some vital information to people who are sick and tired of the same message that the main stream puts out. We question everything here and people like that. We need the corncucopians and the climate deniers. We need the anti-Americans and the flag waivers. We have an international voice. I believe the dangers ahead are oil, economic, socio/political and climate related. We are focused on these issues so I think we are on the right track. It is only by having the diversity of opposing facts that we can get the “balance with variety” we need to wade through the swamp of distortions and fantasy.
I am making an effort at moderation for the betterment of this board not that it matters to everyone. Some even think it childish. Some think it goofy. I firmly believe when we have the daily battles erupt on this board with the name calling and the foul language it diminishes our message. This is especially true with those on this board daily. The fly by night scum is just background noise. I think some of it is good but there is a point where it is adolescent and lame. Some like to use it as a tool to try to influence the board and practice emotional attrition for those who don’t take criticism well.
Anyone here who claims the truth or who judges and assaults other is themselves insecure and unsure of their message. I have done this but I am trying to avoid it. I have my most admiration for those who refrain from attacks and or if they do attack it is with ideas. We know who these guys are and they are good as gold for our resulting multi-voice message. You may say “who the frig cares”. I think there is a silent majority that does care. I think when people come here and see some challenging articles then read the comments it does matter if we look competent or adolescent.
I am here every day because I am a doomer and this site gives me the latest on doom. I want an edge of reactivity for a status quo break. It is no different than being an investor and moving before the herd does. I am well positioned with my prep. If nothing happens for 10 years fine. I love prepping. I wish we had more prep comments here. I am also here doing my mental exercises like I do my physical and psychological exercises. All of this is a part of my overall personal prep. I then have my physical prep and longer term lifestyle prep. It seems the hardcore preppers have become quiet lately or unfortunately in Juan’s case left.
Juan left because of a multi-day personal attack battle with myself along with others. We were all guilty of attacking each other. No one wins and everyone loses in these battles. We know the adolescent behavior is not going away. It is human nature. Some of it is beneficial. It adds a rawness to our message. I am not here to be moderator I am just saying lets moderate if you can find it in yourself.
I think 2016 is a recession. I don’t know if that will be enough to unleash a bigger something. I think it could be a slippery slope in the collapse process we are currently in. Let us now more than every try to be one of the few sites on the internet that navigate the swamp and deliver hard hitting and accurate reporting for this profoundly dangerous time. I think we are near to a break and now more than ever our message matters.
makati1 on Sat, 12th Dec 2015 8:31 pm
The world as a whole is in a recession, some countries are in a depression but paper it over with lies and the printing press. I see 2016 as the year it becomes obvious to all but the most blind and ignorant.
It is also the year that America turns openly fascist, following Europe, it seems. Barring an ‘accident’ I see Trump as the next Prez. Billery would be the same in drag if that ‘accident’ occurs. The others are ‘also rans’.
No good indicators for the 1st world and more of the same for the 3rd. Going to be an interesting year, I suspect.