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Decline and Fall, John Michael Greer
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“Greer’s work is nothing short of brilliant. Richard Heinberg, Senior Fellow, Post-Carbon Institute, and author, The Party’s Over and The End of Growth |
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.
Although writing nearly a century ago, William Butler Yeats could easily be describing the United States today. The central feature of today’s geopolitical landscape is the imminent decline and fall of America’s global empire, and our response to it will determine much of our future, with implications reaching far beyond the limits of the United States’ borders.
Decline and Fall: The End of Empire and the Future of Democracy in 21st Century America challenges the conventional wisdom of empire. John Michael Greer uses a wealth of historical examples combined with groundbreaking original analysis to show how, in the pursuit of political and economic power, the United States has backed itself into a corner, explores the inevitable consequences of imperial collapse, and argues that the only constructive way forward is a renewal of democratic institutions.
Rather than asking whether today’s American empire should survive, Greer shifts the conversation to whether it can survive, and argues persuasively that the answer to the latter question is “no.” An invaluable contribution to the body of speculative post-industrial literature, this book is a must-read for anyone worried about the state of the Union, or who thinks that it is time to reinvent the American Dream. John Michael Greer is a scholar of ecological history, an internationally renowned Peak Oil theorist, and the author of more than thirty books including The Long Descent.
29 Comments on "Decline and Fall, John Michael Greer"
Davy on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 7:55 am
It must be frustrating for the anti-Americans and Bric-o-philes that their heroes are falling like flies. They wanted so much for the evil empire to die a painful death and the Brics would be there to pick up the pieces rising like a phoenix in a new world order. I read these comments and think to myself “self what about depletion, climate change, and overpopulation?” Bric lovers are unable to think that far ahead they are so passionate about war lust and destruction of the evil empire.
The US is no longer an empire. It is never was an empire in the traditional sense. It is a land of a people exploited by the global elite. A land striped of its full potential by globalism. A wonderful land led astray by a political industrial fascism that is global in nature. Unfortunately for the anti-Americans and Bric lovers the US is showing staying power. It could be the last man standing in a BAU sense. It doesn’t matter though who stands last we are all dead men walking.
penury on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 10:00 am
Davy, I am not going to argue Empire with you as your definition appears to differ from mine. I will however say that if the economies in question owe the US. 9 trillion dollars and are unable to pay it might cause a slight owwe to the economy. If a company such as “Apple” has billions of dollar assets in BRIC banks and these banks fail, will we make APPLE whole again? How about CAT, McDonalds? and scores of others. Even Boeing does self financing to transfer aircraft to EMs and BRICs, Are we the sheeple going to pick up the tab? Our economy like you said is a dead man walking, but so is every other government in the world. But apparently war will save us all.
Rodster on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 10:13 am
The USSA has been acting and operating as an Empire. It has expanded its influence and authority by means of its Military, its money system and the Vassal states it has created by means of NATO. The USSA is no different than what came before it, the British Empire.
As such all Empires fail because it needs to keep growing and as all Empires throughout history have found out, it collapses under its own weight. It’s impossible to service the debt created from its need to expand, its military bases around the world and the promises made to its citizens. Ask Rome how that worked out for them?
onlooker on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 10:16 am
Also, empires by nature are accursed to those subjugated by them. Thus, they are constantly having to squelch rebellion and non-conformance.
joke on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 10:45 am
Good to see someone actually putting themselves out there who actually understands the patterns that history teaches. Free trade and globalisation has reduced wages and maximised profits, these profits go to ceo’s who don’t mind being on the federal government payroll as the debt builds up to pay for new tech for tomorrow’s wars. The slight recovery of former imperialist colony’s such as China and India and why not throw in Russia as well (the imperialist regime that mutated into a people’s nightmare ) has alarmed US strategists so much that they see only one option, to create a chaos on their borders to try to keep them in their cages. But their bases will be built and their empires will try to grow as well. Just as trees grow from seeds, no matter how much you trim back, next year you have to do it again.
Rodster on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 10:46 am
“Also, empires by nature are accursed to those subjugated by them. Thus, they are constantly having to squelch rebellion and non-conformance.”
Good point, I forgot to mention that. We are now live under the rule of “oppression and tyranny”. It will only get worse as the collapse rolls on. How about a cashless society for the “Plebs”, just in case they get out of line and oppose authority.
Davy on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 11:42 am
Pen, we are talking an interconnected global world now. Previous definitions of empire do not fit the current situation. We can adapt a definition maybe but when is an adapted definition a new definition?
If the U.S. is a true empire it would control most of its resources, means of production, and territory it has bases on. It doesn’t control most of that. It is an importing nation with a dominant currency, biggest military, and financial service sector as a short list of a longish list. The U.S. military is not dominant in the way an empire military should be. It’s economy is not dominant. It’s financial sector is one of many. These are so many examples of less than empire status.
Anti-Americans like to portray the U.S. for more than what it is so they can vilify and try to diminish it. Anti-Americans want to blame most of the global problems current and historic on the U.S. for agenda purposes. The U.S. is the worst of the worst but not by much. Most of this blame game is shared among many nation when one digs deeper. Anti-Americans are simplistic in their blame game. Life in this respect is never simple.
The global world is a multi-polar in every sense. The U.S. Is guilty of being a bully. It is guilty of moral hypocrisy. It’s culture is in decay. It’s industrial political system is fascist in nature and increasingly corrupt putting it on par with much of the rest of the world the U.S. tried so hard to criticize in the past. It is now what it used to criticize.
The U.S. is a product of globalism. In many ways globalism was the evil offspring of the U.S. It’s evil offspring is now consuming her in economic canabalism. Please tell me how such a country could be an empire?
penury on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 12:02 pm
Davy,as I said your definition of empire varies from mine. What you say may be somewhat true but a closer evaluation of the facts might give you another thought. Control of natural resources, “trade must be conducted using U,S, dollar”, means of production, on this one I agree with you.Territory that it has bases on. Monetary exploitation and “treaty’s give the U.S. control look at NATO look around at the countries we have bases in. We may not meet your definition of an empire, but neither did England during the last century. War suppression of populations thru currency controls and when challenged sanctions (what the hell is a sanction)imposed and enforced by currency controls on the sanctioned and the trading partners. No we are not an Empire but we are something else: and war is apparently the control of choice at the moment.
penury on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 12:07 pm
And oh by the way I am not anti-American but I am opposed to the current insanity being exhibited by our government; I will refrain from calling you a “flag waving, jingoistic, imperialist rah rah flag waver, but you will have to stop the anti.american bullshit.
Rodster on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 12:21 pm
“And oh by the way I am not anti-American but I am opposed to the current insanity being exhibited by our government;”
It’s easy to tell when an Empire is at the end of it’s life because you begin to see:
“State sponsored terrorism, creating global chaos thru the use of NGO’s, instigating global violence, creating regional wars, creating enemies to destroy and kill your enemies, killing those who disagree with you via Drone strikes, killing World Leaders who are not doing the Empires bidding all on trumped up bullshit charges, all at the hands of the USSA. In fact the glorious USSA was voted #1 in the world as the greatest threat to World Peace. Good job America you finally are really good at something.
BobInget on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 12:49 pm
Buried artifacts, frozen for a thousand years,
coming to light.
http://www.care2.com/causes/ancient-artifacts-in-the-thawing-arctic-are-disappearing-before-being-documented.html
Boat on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 1:16 pm
Davy,
Clap clap. You are right on target. I am dumbstruck.
Not only all the things you mentioned but the US government only wants to promote free trade. They don’t own any of the industry. They just try to influence the world to let our money and industry compete. Just like they let international industry to compete in the US. These are not the traits of an empire. The US may be dominate in many areas but like Iraq, after a conflict they want the country to rule itself but as a nation that will trade with other nations including China and Russia. Does that sound like empire building?
Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 1:17 pm
The USA is a festering shithole full of obese simpletons.
Apneaman on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 1:40 pm
boat, free trade. good one.
http://resourceinsights.blogspot.ca/2015/09/stock-market-confessions-chaos.html
Boat on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 1:55 pm
The Chinese are just learning the hard way. As they become more open and honest and move to a free market they will be better off. Experts have been telling them that for decades.
Boat on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 2:01 pm
The US is learning also. Remember the civilized world is still young and it is tough for governments to keep up with business. Rules and regulations always lag and are reactionary to crisis.
Boat on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 2:04 pm
Truth,
Don’t ferget to floss in-between them two green teeth you got left. LOL Sorry, couldn’t help it.
apneaman on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 2:10 pm
Fuck off boat with your, leave it to beaver, golly gee willikers explanations.
apneaman on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 2:14 pm
U.S. Empire of Bases Grows
http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175568/tomgram%3A_david_vine,_u.s._empire_of_bases_grows/
Boat on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 3:18 pm
apeman.
When it comes to the military your preaching to the choir. I don’t believe we need all those bases. In fact the bases we have should be bought and paid for by the country were in.
For example China, Japan and S Korea etc need the middle east oil and trade more than the US does so their troops and navy’s should be there in equal numbers helping defray the cost of continued oil supply around the world.
The US needa no troops in Europe or S Korea. Period. If the time comes our military needs to deploy a month or two will not make much difference in historical terms. The US should guarantee our help to our allies but not first strike. We should promise proportional retaliation and restore any land loss but these promises should be a consortium of the entire free trade world countries. Your with the cooperating countries or not. Russia is learning this the hard way. We do not need any loose cannons like Putin. It is a simple concept. It’s all about free access to trade or expect trouble.
In any conflict the US has controlled the air. I don’t expect that to change. There are plenty of countries that would provide bases for free. Our politicians and military leaders don’t need first strike caqibility IMO
Energy Investor on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 4:48 pm
Davy, I think you could read John Perkins’book “The Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” to get a more accurate perspective of the way empire was formed via economic influence and corecion. Those of us looking into the empire from the outside have a clear understanding of how the banksters and the industrial/military establishment control things. The USA may well be “the home of the brave”…but it is certainly not the “land of the free”.
Davy on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 5:01 pm
Pen, I am a flag waiver but the flag is upside down in distress. I am OK with anti-Americanism in the correct context. I have the highest respect for you and read all your comments. I find them fair, balanced and accurate.
I have a problem with uneducated numb nuts like “The truth is I am an Asswipe” from Montreal. You know who I mean. Anti-Ameicanism is legitimate but it is also a disease of negative group think. The key is finding a way to channel the positive side of anti-Americanism and cancel out the negative.
Boat on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 5:06 pm
Energy is just a buzz word. Any one with common sense knows to live with one another takes a tremendous amount of regulations as humans try one case at a time to establish fairness.
If you live in a subdivision you can’t throw your trash over the fence. If you do you will go to court and be fined. This is not a lack of freedom. This is stupidity that takes laws. All these general ideas of no freedom are nuts. One needs to be more specific about one law in particular to discuss. As nations trade more laws will become more identical as to create and maintain a fair playing field.
penury on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 5:41 pm
Davy, lets agree that we agree on ninety per cent and we can ignore most of the ten per cent, I will not attribute your use of anti to me unless clearly stated as long as we can remember the object of our (my) anger and disgust are the current purveyors of the message and not the cation we used to love.
penury on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 5:44 pm
cation replace with “nation”
onlooker on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 6:12 pm
I do not actually think it is constructive to think of countries as being autonomous in the modern era. They are in fact controlled by financial elites. These elites are the true power. I speak especially of the banking families such as the Rothchilds. The banking system and stock markets have had a perverse effect on the governing structures of countries and corporations. Money is power and never so true as in the modern era. The perverse influence of banking on the stock markets has taken the form of investment banks. The closest we can come to calling the US an empire is to say that the Western world especially US and Britain has been coopted and absorbed into a financial web controlled by a few families and Banks who since the Middle Ages and perhaps back even to Rome have surreptitiously wielded the real power behind the scenes.
Makati1 on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 7:38 pm
onlooker, you have the right idea. Today’s world is a game between the elites of the world, not the people. The psychopaths have taken over most governments for their own greed and power and are playing a gigantic Monopoly game. Except in real Monopoly, no one gets killed.
Amazing how so many can be controlled and killed by so few, who never, personally pick up a gun. They pick up a pen and write a check and start a war.
But, I blame the US & UK for most of today’s chaos. It seems to be their only method of force because they would get their asses kicked in a shooting war and they know it. The citizens of both countries are to blame as they are allowing it to happen and even financing it with the future of their kids and grand kids. Perhaps insanity really is contagious? Or is it fear?
I really hope there is a mother of all crashes soon that ends the insanity and leaves us with enough resources for the human species to continue. If it lingers on, most of us older humans will live to see the end or our species and the 6th great extinction.
Davy on Sun, 6th Sep 2015 8:14 pm
EI said “how the banksters and the industrial/military establishment control things.” That is pretty much the same across the board. Look at Iran, China, and Russia where the military has clear and significant economic control. We of course understand the situation in the US with MIC. Although I would take it a bit further in the US. The entire country is divided up into industrial, political, and social movement blocks who’s influence is administered by lobbyist. Everyone is on the take and the system is sold out. The pie is shrinking so it is a Darwinian devolution into the swamp of reptilian morals and values. I recommend you watch the “House of Cards” for more insight into the sleaze. BTW I have read some articles on Zero Hedge referencing Perkins Book.
Rodster on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 6:36 am
“I really hope there is a mother of all crashes soon that ends the insanity and leaves us with enough resources for the human species to continue. If it lingers on, most of us older humans will live to see the end or our species and the 6th great extinction.”
With all the nuclear weapons at the hands of the elite and nuclear waste from nuclear power plants that will be a tall order keeping the monkey in its cage.