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Page added on April 23, 2014
Natural Gas Vehicles – It’S The Old Problem Of Chicken And Egg
For those of us who follow these things, the glut of articles regarding natural gas as a better alternative for commercial vehicles continues to come at a fast and furious rate. But, there is a chicken and egg thing here. You need the infrastructure to retail the fuel before you will see vehicles, but you won’t get the vehicles without the infrastructure. So if this is such a good idea how do we make this marriage happen? Stick with me, we’ll get to that in a moment.
Let’s talk about the why first. Natural gas is the cleanest of the fossil fuels and by switching to it in our commercial diesel vehicles, the air quality, especially in our communities, can be improved immediately. There are lower pollutants, toxins and even noise (natural gas engines run quieter than diesels). The cost of natural gas is very attractive now. With the increased production from shale gas there is a huge increase in supply which has driven the cost down. So it is cleaner, quieter and cheaper. A bonus for our work at C3 is that there is a 20 to 25 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. This is one of those instances where you get an economic and an environmental win.
Now how that fuel is used matters. Almost all the current discussion is about using this fuel for commercial purposes; not personal vehicles. Compressed natural gas (CNG) is best for shorter-range commercial vehicles in our cities and towns. Liquid natural gas (LNG) is better for the long-haul heavy trucks where you need to ca
rry more fuel for those longer distances. For western Canada we have an abundance of both trucks and natural gas.
Our neighbours to the south and west have also decided that natural gas vehicles make good sense and they are investing heavily to convert fleets to this cleaner burning fuel. Almost all of our commercial long-haul trucking is interlinked with the U.S. and BC so we will need to keep up. Fortunately for Canada, one of the lead development companies for natural gas engines is Westport in Vancouver. This makes for a great Canadian story. Our fuel, our engines cleaning up our environment and making economic sense.
So let’s get back to the question of how do we make this vehicles-infrastructure marriage work?
We’re in a situation where we need both to be happening at the same time. That’s why we’ve become involved in a federally-funded initiative to provide support to the natural gas commercial vehicle industry. C3 is acting as the Natural Gas Vehicle Information Hub for western Canada. The Western Hub provides information and connects fleet managers with their peers who are already using natural gas vehicles to offer real-world experiences and lessons learned. This is accomplished through workshops, training sessions and a variety of other tools.
Perhaps the Alberta government should consider investing in something similar to what BC has done to overcome the chicken or the egg; whichever needs to come first.
17 Comments on "Natural Gas Vehicles – It’S The Old Problem Of Chicken And Egg"
Aaron on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 7:54 am
Ahh the “green gas” myth. Do you really want to invest billions in new fossil fuel infrastructure at this juncture in the climate calamity? It’s like going to sit at the back of the bus just before it goes off a cliff.
Davey on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 8:14 am
We best not get stupid about gas because there are currently very important uses for it as feedstocks and heating/cooking. A little freight transport may be a good thing. A little gas thermo electric especially in conjunction with AltE sources. It is apparent on this site that gas supply may not be what the happy lobbyist say it is. If the lobbyist of plenty have their greedy ways we will see market distortions leave the grid unstable and people cold. As far as AGW IMHO we are toast when the permafrost thaws so what is a little more methan from humans
PCTECH on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 8:19 am
Natural gas has less heat energy that diesel fuel, hence you’ll have to burn more for the same amount of work.Prices will climb for sure and the reserves will be depleted at a much faster rate
Jimmy on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 8:22 am
I’ve got natural gas piped to my home to run the furnace and there is also an outside ‘tap’ where I can hook up a BBQ that runs on nat gas.
Couldn’t someone just design a nat gas vehicle with an inboard gas compressor so I could fuel up the tank at home?
There’s plenty of natural gas at the retail level for those running natural gas furnaces.
westexas on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 8:59 am
The current decline may or may not continue, but the EIA shows that dry processed Canadian natural gas production fell from 6.6 TCF in 2005 to 5.1 TCF in 2012.
Makati1 on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 9:12 am
Considering that it took the best part of 50 years to build out the gas/diesel system, I guess they don’t consider time and cost to be a reality. By the time it could be built, we will be out of NG.
Considering the coverage needed and the fact that there are about 200,000 gas stations in the US, assuming that it would only cost each one $100K* to add CNG/LNG, we are talking some $20B+ in investments for something that is not likely to recover that investment in the time left.
*that may be a low figure with all the safety and regulations required. It’s not like gas or diesel that do not require pressure tanks or special dispensing personnel.
bobinget on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 9:26 am
Like Jimmy’s place, most urban homes, businesses have both electricity and gas. So much for infrastructure. As for BTU… Gasoline needs to be refined from crude. That crude needs be transported to a refinery. That refinery incidentally uses natural gas to obtain great heat needed to change heavy crude into volatile gasoline.
On completion, the transportation cycle begins once again: Large Storage tanks to smaller. Most often gasoline is delivered to retail by tanker truck.
(lots of energy consumed above)
NG needs to be dewatered and sometimes poisonous gasses removed. No refinery required. Often, from well head to Jimmy’s BBQ only pumping pressure is needed.
Propane, a byproduct of refining is more labor, energy intensive.
CNG will remain popular in South America and Europe
as transportation fuel.
If gasoline came up for approval today as a transportation fuel it would be rejected as too dangerous. We would continue to use 90% diesel and 10% electric.
Plantagenet on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 11:35 am
Obama says we have a 100 year supply of NG. Claims that NG will soon run out are clearly wrong.
baptised on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 11:47 am
Jimmy their is small compressors available now. They are added to your home line and will fill a converted auto tank in 4 to 6 hours. Contact your NG company. Your looking at about 2.5 k installed and licensed. Another 3 k for auto conversion.
drwater on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 1:17 pm
Wouldn’t LNG in trucks be like a bomb in an accident? Kinda like what happened when that FedEx truck hit the high school bus recently in N. Cal.
hvacman on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 5:53 pm
A whole lot of buses, including school buses, have used CNG in CA for years. I see compressor stations at many local bus maintenance yards. Even at a buck a therm, it is 1/3 the cost per mile of diesel, plus lower service costs, cleaner exhaust, etc.
It makes a lot of sense for fleet delivery vehicles, too. We’ll be seeing a lot more of them, along with plug-in electric/hybrid delivery type vehicles.
Davey on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 6:07 pm
HV, definitely a solid justifiable niche but a game changer “NO” in my opinion. Supply is suspect and financially a large infrastructure change over is beyond what our economy can do. We are broke but just don’t see it yet or realize it. What you see is what you are going to get on the macro side in my opinion.
Makati1 on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 7:53 pm
Jimmy, there are no NG lines to most gas stations outside city areas. Or to most rural locations where you might live. Because you have it does not mean that it is everywhere. I know it is not in any of the locations I have live in the last 20 years. Not even close.
When you pump a fuel under high pressure, you are prone to more accidents/explosions than with a liquid. Insurance costs and trained help would increase costs to the seller and therefore to the buyer.
But, it will not become common anyway so it is just a topic for discussion.
Newfie on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 7:57 pm
SE Asia already has millions of vehicles powered by CNG. Their truck fleet is powered by natural gas. They already have the infrastructure. But… Wait a minute… They are “Third World” and we are “advanced”. So… Uh… What’s going on here ?
rockman on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 8:23 pm
Some numbers Newfie: “Still, growth in China and many Western European countries will be even more rapid, the research firm projected. Navigant forecasts 138,177 light-duty natural gas vehicles will be sold in North America in 2023, compared to 1.9 million in the Asia-Pacific market.
“North America, despite the excitement surrounding newly available natural gas, is likely to remain a comparatively small market,” the report says.”
From: http://fuelfix.com/blog/2014/02/27/researchers-natural-gas-vehicles-will-see-rapid-rise-globally-through-2023/
DC on Wed, 23rd Apr 2014 9:34 pm
In the northern city I grew up in, closer to Alaska than anything else, you could have shops convert your gas-burner to NG….30 years ago. Sure it cost a few dollars, but it wasn’t prohibitively expensive. A few did, but NG vehicles never took off in a big way despite it being (at the time) dirt cheap compared to gaz-o-leen. The idea that the high price (lol!) of gaz being charged to the empires debt serfs will ‘drive’ people to convert to NG is a strange one.It didnt happen 30 years ago when the price differential was roughly about the same as it is now. Gaz was around a .80$ a liter or about, auto NG, was under .20$ as I recall. There was no stampede to NG, despite govt grants to convert and nearly as much financial incentive(via price signals) to convert-but they didnt . Why do the NG shills keep insisting NG is the next ‘big thing’, or the only ‘big thing’?.
rockman on Thu, 24th Apr 2014 8:04 am
Dc – “Why do the NG shills keep insisting NG is the next ‘big thing’, or the only ‘big thing’?.” Probably because writers don’t get paid as much by posting decades old stories. Only “new exciting ideas” get you the big checks. LOL. That’s why I always chuckle when I see stories about all this “new” horizontal drilling/frac’ng technology.