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Page added on February 20, 2014
Feeding the expanding global population
pys.org says we can’t do it the way we’ve done it for the past 2,000 years. Maybe the news hasn’t reached parts of the academy that we aren’t doing it the way we did it 2,000 years ago. An article on phys.org covers recent work by Dr. Poppy of Southampton University. Professor Poppy believes that we need to develop more environmentally friendly methods of sustainably intensive agriculture because the exploding population can’t be fed.
The article made me question some of the premises of the article. I didn’t think the US was farming the way it did 40 years ago, which was significantly different from farming methods 2,000 years ago. I found a recent TED talk by Dr. Poppy. Although interesting I heard population explosion, climate change, sustainability, working with the people, government directing farming practices and the tribal elders directing activities. Pretty much all the buzzwords. So, one of the drastic changes is government directed agriculture? It didn’t work well in the Soviet Union, but we can try again, I suppose.
Professor Poppy’s TED talk discussed his work in Malawi. According to Wikipedia, Malawi is one of the least developed countries in the world. Poppy said that burning wood was a problem because led to deforestation and maybe substitute fuels, like charcoal would be better.
Poppy misses technology and mechanization of farming. The US has gone from 90% of the population in food production to 4%. Yields per acre have dramatically increased. GM foods have increased yields, made the plants more resistant to pests and with pesticide resistance (“Round up Ready”) made farming less environmentally intrusive. Many of the modern innovations seem to be banned in the relatively rich first world, pressing poverty on the poorer nations.
Instead of pulshing for increased technology and increased energy availability, we seem to think the big improvement is charcoal. You can’t bring the third world up to first world overnight, but you can certainly do more than charcoal and village elders. Technological advance is sustainable. Continuing millenia-old lifestyles is likely to fail.
24 Comments on "Feeding the expanding global population"
Davy, Hermann, MO on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 11:47 am
Technological advance is sustainable. Continuing millenia-old lifestyles is likely to fail.
Well, more of the usual increasingly desperate Techno-salvation minds. These things happen when a limits of growth predicament mixed with an energy trap from lost time in an energy decent. These guys are desperate hence all the articles trying to promote technical solutions lately. The is the realization “We have a problem Houston” I do not deny we will need some of these technologies. Problems are solved with technology, knowledge, and energy. I believe that is the foundation of science, yet science without critical review is suicide. I am talking at the highest level of our disposition as a human species. We will have to accept that science, technology, industry, development, and growth have become our addiction. There is nothing wrong with alcohol until it is an addiction then it is poison. We need 12 steps as a species. We need an awakening of grass roots bottom up action not these technocrats preaching more of the same. The top down is paralyzed with the usual traits we see in an ecosystem when it climaxes and sets up for a nonlinear slide down the complexity slope. Niches are filled, adaptation is stifled, and adjustment becomes impossible. A change hits this ecosystem and the connections break. The cycle of life renews. We are at this point of a peak. All here will agree we are at a peak of about everything except good news. The TPTB, Techno-salvation scientific minds, industry leaders, and social scientist are nervous. In every field we are faced with predicaments and problems that can’t be solved easy or comfortable. The limits of growth are evident but there is still denial. We listen to economist that say population growth is necessary for healthy growth. We listen to scientist that say growth is OK in a developed technological world. Politicians sell it to the general public. We here accept limits to growth in a finite world. We are exploring new ways which in fact are old ways. These old ways proven over 1000 of years of man’s development are our only answer. There will be no easy way to get there. The reality of Decent is less. Over shoot to a species carrying capacity is what it is. Less in a complex interconnect global world means “games over”. We are at the final inning, final game, with 2 strikes. If any here don’t know baseball that means you can still win but you better get your shit together. We can manage this from the bottom up and luck may intercede. Many of us here have the right ideas but sometimes we lack balance. A balance would be the recognition of manage Bau decent from the bottom up. The top down will never accept theories and talk of postindustrial thinking but nature will enforce it and nature rules. If our plan B’s are palatable enough for the “TOP” we may have a chance to initiate some of these great plans we read here. It will be a tough ride no doubt but “hope” of something is better than darkness and despair
meld on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 11:56 am
Umm yes we are doing it the same way we did it 2000 years ago. Plough/till soil, plant seeds, water, try to stop pests damaging crops and try to stop “weeds” stealing nutrients. The only difference is that Oil and Gas have given a single farmer super human strength to accomplish these exact same tasks.
GMOs are not “new” technology, humans have been genetically modifying plants for thousands of years (all be it at a slower rate) through natural means
The Author of this article is either a geneticist or massively uneducated in ecology. Possibly both
If you want to grow food efficiently just watch how it happens in nature. Polycultures, no dig, beneficial insects, no chemical fertiliser or pesticide. “modern” methods of farming (till, pesticides etc.) fight against the flow of nature from beginning to end, they are wasteful, damaging, inefficient and foolhardy, but they sadly fit the narrative of exponential growth that permeates through every inch of our global society.
rollin on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 12:22 pm
Meld needs to look up the definition of GMO. Selecting naturally occurring traits is far different from GMO.
meld on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 12:39 pm
Really? changing the genetics of a plant through selective breeding is different from changing the genetics in a lab? Please do enlighten me because they both sound like changing genetics using different approaches to me.
meld on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 12:48 pm
The narrative is still the same in both cases. Human changes genetic make up of plant to fit his personal needs. For thousands of years humans have manipulate herbs into Large, fat, juicy and incredibly weak, feeble and tasteless vegetables. Now Scientists are taking those same weak vegetables and trying to make them resistant to pests by making them poisonous to them (and all the beneficial insects too) and lets not forget the impact that is having on our gut bacteria.
No, the same narrative is prevalent in both systems (GMO, selective breeding). Mankind seeks to control nature and by doing so he creates something inferior.
Davy, Hermann, MO on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 1:00 pm
@Meld – plants change humans and humans change plants in a symbiotic arrangement. People sure love cannabis, tobacco, tea, coffee. We maybe should humble ourselves and realize nature is selectively breeding us too.
Davy, Hermann, MO on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 1:00 pm
Plants change humans and humans change plants in a symbiotic arrangement. People sure love cannabis, tobacco, tea, coffee. We maybe should humble ourselves and realize nature is selectively breeding us too.
meld on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 1:19 pm
Well personally I don’t smoke or drink alcohol or caffeine and I’m pretty darn healthy for my age. How exactly are plants changing humans again?
Davy, Hermann, MO on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 1:26 pm
Your one in a million meld. I don’t drink or smoke but don’t take away my coffee
meld on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 1:38 pm
The problem here is that the narrative hasn’t changed. The use of GMOs is a natural evolution of selective breeding.
Why did we selectively breed things? well because people started considering food as a lifestyle choice at some point in the past. If a farmer could get more money/seashells or whatever for a field of fat cabbages than a field of nettles, chickweed, dandelions etc, then he would take the route of selective breeding.
Objectively speaking though the field of herbs (weeds) has a far higher EROEI, contains far more nutrients and minerals and is better for the natural environment. The downside to the weeds? a stronger taste (which I prefer) and a bit more chewy. I’ll take the weeds any day of the week thanks.
try them sometime
http://www.eatweeds.co.uk/
ghung on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 2:04 pm
@meld – ”
Really? changing the genetics of a plant through selective breeding is different from changing the genetics in a lab?”
Sometimes it’s very different. Selective breeding generally involves cross-breeding closely related species or subspecies. Creating transgenic plants from a lab often involves mingling genes from an entirely different kingdom. From wikipedia: “Genetically Modified Crops”-
Transgenic plants have genes inserted into them that are derived from another species. The inserted genes can come from species within the same kingdom (plant to plant) or between kingdoms (for example, bacteria to plant”
Nature doesn’t put pig genes into cumquats.
Davy, Hermann, MO on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 2:50 pm
@ghung Nature doesn’t put pig genes into cumquats.
YUK!
Northwest Resident on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 3:09 pm
Feeding the expanding global population can only be done with increased energy (oil) input to the global economy. We all know that most if not all of the increases in global oil supply these days is coming from nonconventional oil production. Problem is, those nonconventional oil sources have high decline rates, the “good” ones have already been tapped and getting the sub-par liquids out of those sites is already too expensive for the economy to bear. Meanwhile, due no doubt in large part to the vast tonnage of CO2 and other pollutants we are pumping into the atmosphere, the climate is changing rapidly, with drought severely impacting major food producing areas in the world including California and Brazil (where water is now being rationed). China is another example of exactly how bad it can be in terms of feeding their own people.
BAU is grinding to a halt. The loud screeching noises we hear from around the world are the sounds of the gears locking up as the wheels and appendages of that gigantic machine move ever more slowly. At some point in the not too distant future, the machine will come to a total standstill and no number of all the king’s men will be able to put it back together again. At that point, we all better be set up to produce our own food, to be totally self-reliant in terms of food and water. If you aren’t working toward that goal urgently right now, then chances are, you’re already too late.
Meld on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 3:51 pm
@Ghung – I’m well aware of the oddities that Geneticists put inside GMO food. The point I am trying to make is that GMO tech is simply an extension of the same kind of thinking that created the weak, limp, helpess veg that we eat today. Being monkeys with limited brain power we all think bigger is better (hence the obsession in allotments all of the planet for veg competition that focus on size and colouring) The point I have tried to to make is that bigger isn’t better, it’s a hell of a lot worse. Weeds/herbs are numerous times easier to grow and far healthier for us and the ecosystem than ‘veg’ , so why do we grow veg at all?
Northwest Resident on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 4:01 pm
Meld — What weeds and herbs do you recommend?
I bought a book on all the edible plants that grow naturally in Northwest Oregon, thinking that at some point in the future it may come down to foraging. It is amazing how many of those plants also have medicinal uses, and were very important to the indian tribes that existed in the NW before white man arrived. I’ve found and eaten a few of them. My impression: Not bad, but not all that good either. I guess I could used to eating them, but I hope it doesn’t come down to that. Still, like you say, they are much easier to grow and they are highly nutritious. One thing I am planning for my soon-to-be-completed backyard food production center is the invasive weed known as “blackberry bushes”. Blackberries are very nutritious, they grow no matter what, the cut-up plants make great mulch and they taste good too. There are some other natural berries that I am also going to be planting very soon — can’t wait!
Kenz300 on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 4:11 pm
Endless population growth is not sustainable.
Access to family planning services needs to be available for all that want it.
noobtube on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 4:21 pm
The only population problems are in the areas creating all the pollution and waste.
Take out the United States, Europe, Australia, urbanized China, and Canada… and the carrying capacity of the Earth goes up by a factor of 10 (at least).
meld on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 5:53 pm
Northwest resident – I’m from Wales so I imagine the flora will be different. Having said that, It is my understanding many of the Herbs you have in the US were brought over from Europe anyway (although they may have different name). Firstly I’d recommend this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Forager-Handbook-Miles-Irving/dp/0091913632/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392917904&sr=8-1&keywords=foragers+guide
This is basically your ultimate home reference book. You would need a field guide to your local area to take with you if you are thinking of foraging as this book is far too large to take anywhere and the pictures are in black and white.
For medicinal use I’d recommend this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hedgerow-Medicine-Harvest-Herbal-Remedies/dp/1873674996/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392918131&sr=8-1&keywords=hedgerow+medicine
And there are others on ‘spiritual’ use as well, but I’m guessing not many would be interested in that side.
My personal advice? NETTLES! they are the premium herb. Huge amounts of protein and nutrients and nobody can be bothered picking them due to their aggressive nature. Dandelions are excellent as are chickweed, plantain, ramsons, yarrow, sheep’s sorrel. Basically most of the things that veg growers pull up and replace with vegetables are at least doubly nutritious and take zero work to grow.
Nettle beer, nettle soup, nettle pesto, the imagination is the limit, and yes you do get used to them, and after a while veg tastes like pap. Although I am still fond of tomatoes, but they grow extremely well with nettles as a companion.
Northwest Resident on Thu, 20th Feb 2014 9:37 pm
Thanks for that feedback, meld. Wales, huh? My brother did the research and traced our lineage through our father’s side — my father, his father, and his father, etc… — all the way back to some dude named Rhys ap Thomas. I’m sure you know who he is. In 1692 a man descended from one of Rhys ap Thomas’ illegitimate sons made his way to America as the indentured servant (or whatever — there was a fancy title) of some English Noble, and from there went on to produce many many lines that all trace back to Rhys ap Thomas. I don’t know if it really happened that way or not, but I like to think that I’ve got a little bit of the “king killer” in my genetic make-up…:-)
Dandelions and nettles we have plenty of around here. Dandelions are everywhere and TBH, I never thought about eating them. Nettles only seem to grow in sandy well-drained soil close to the smaller rivers and creeks we have all over the place. I never dreamed they were so nutritious. Thanks for the info!
Makati1 on Fri, 21st Feb 2014 1:47 am
@meld, when Man plays God, as he is doing these days creating GMO frankenveggies, he is opening Pandora’s Box and has no idea how to close it.
Look at the nuclear genie he loosened. Or the chemical industry. Both are killing the ecosystem our very lives depend upon. Ditto for most every place Tech touches.
No, GMO is just another horseman for the Apocalypse. (And, no, I am not religious, but it is a good analogy as most understand it.)
GregT on Fri, 21st Feb 2014 6:04 am
NWR,
Be very careful where you decide on planting blackberries, invasive is an understatement. If you can somehow keep them contained to certain areas, they also make very good natural barricades. As good as, if not better than, barbed wire.
Northwest Resident on Fri, 21st Feb 2014 6:26 am
Good advice, GregT. Trust me, I know all about blackberries, having dealt with many thick patches of them in the past. One home that I bought had about a quarter acre in thick blackberry bushes. One summer, I went out every day hacking and chopping and cutting and eventually cleared the whole patch out. I discovered an old collapsed barn under those blackberries! But this time, where I am going to plant them, they will have the duel purpose of which you speak — that is the plan. Yeah, I’m going to have to fight them from spreading into unwanted areas all the time, but with diligence I know that’s a fight I will win.
meld on Fri, 21st Feb 2014 9:41 am
GregT- I love that word invasive, it’s such an emotionally charged misnomer. Try substituting it for the word strong or heroic and watch your perception change. I try to grow as many invasive plants as possible because they have a ridiculously high EROEI. Get a good polyculture of invasive edible weeds going and you can eat for free all year round without doing any work apart from harvesting.
Digging is the real cause of invasive “weeds” on the whole anyway. Bare soil is very very rare in most of the world and as such when pioneer plants get the opportunity to seed into it they make the most of it. It’s another example of humans wasting huge amounts of energy through a lack of understanding of ecology. Most of us who aren’t living in the 15th century use cover crops to stop unwanted inedible weeds from getting a foothold.
It is funny how “weed” is an insult in some parts of the world. “Oh you weed” people say when they want to insult someone’s lack of strength. Ironically weeds are the strongest plants on the planet, I’d be honoured if someone called me a weed. 🙂
meld on Fri, 21st Feb 2014 9:46 am
With regards to blackberries they are the next step of succession after annual and perennial herbs. One could say the very purpose of such prickly plants like blackberries , gorse, etc is so that the lowland grazers can’t reach any trees that are sprouting up amongst them. ( I know that is the wrong way around to look at it but it simplifies the example)
In temperate parts of the world the landscape is trying to return to wood and forest, why don’t we let it but with fruit and nut trees, and edible ground cover instead. Agroforestry works with nature rather than against it. Systems theory folks.