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Page added on January 21, 2013
Degrowth
Decades of material growth have left us with a limited imagination for alternatives. Now that we’ve hit the point of diminishing returns for additional economic growth, can we decolonize our mind? In the developed world, is it possible to improve our quality of life while decreasing our standard of living? Could it be possible to degrow our economies in a way that creates a happier and healthier society while creating a true alternative for the undeveloped world?
In this epic length episode #55 of The Extraenvironmentalist we cover the Montreal Degrowth Conference from May 2013. We hear from a number of degrowth academics and activists about the ideas in the movement. Through more than twelve interviews we speak with Peter Brown, Michael M’Gonigle, Josh Farley, David Suzuki, Bill Rees, Mary Evelyn Tucker, Janice Harvey, Charles Hall, Gail Tverberg, Juliet Schor, Joan Martinez-Alier and Erik Assadourian. Then, we recap 2012 by hearing from Gregor MacDonald about the IEA’s headline grabbing scenario for a United States that produces more oil than Saudi Arabia and Jeremy Grantham’s recent eyebrow raising report on resource scarcity. We close out with a preview of our 2013 interviews.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 3:13:43 — 177.4MB) | Embed
Podcast (96kbps): Play in new window | Download (Duration: 3:14:10 — 133.4MB) | Embed
// Index
Peter Brown on degrowth – 6m
Michael M’Gonigle on education – 17m
Josh Farley on money and alternatives to GDP – 26m
David Suzuki on localism – 43m
Bill Rees on denial – 53m
Mary Evelyn Tucker on a new narrative – 1h06m
Janice Harvey on culture change – 1h12m
Charlie Hall on energy return – 1h27m
Gail Tverberg on peak oil – 1h43m
Juliet Schor on working less – 1h5om
Joan Martinez-Alier on ecological economics – 2h6m
Erik Assadourian on degrowth – 2h15m
Gregor Macdonald on the IEA, claims about US oil production and Jeremy Grantham – 2h38m
16 Comments on "Degrowth"
Econ 101 on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 3:15 pm
Resource scar ity is not a fact it’s misinformation. Let’s take a look at a man that made predictions about world hunger and was praised by academia and others as a prophet:
Claims: In 1968, Paul R. Ehrlich wrote The Population Bomb and declared that the battle to feed humanity had been lost and that there would be a major food shortage in the US. “In the 1970s … hundreds of millions are going to starve to death,” and by the 1980s most of the world’s important resources would be depleted. He forecast that 65 million Americans would die of starvation between 1980-1989 and that by 1999, the US population would decline to 22.6 million. The problems in the US would be relatively minor compared to those in the rest of the world. (Ehrlich, Paul R. The Population Bomb. New York, Ballantine Books, 1968.) New Scientist magazine underscored his speech in an editorial titled “In Praise of Prophets.”
Econ 101 on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 3:17 pm
* In 1939 the US Department of the Interior said that American oil supplies would last only another 13 years.
Econ 101 on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 3:18 pm
* 1944 federal government review predicted that by now the US would have exhausted its reserves of 21 of 41 commodities it examined. Among them were tin, nickel, zinc, lead and manganese.
Econ 101 on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 3:19 pm
* In 1949 the Secretary of the Interior announced that the end of US oil was in sight.
Econ 101 on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 3:20 pm
* In 1885, the US Geological Survey announced that there was “little or no chance” of oil being discovered in California.
Econ 101 on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 3:21 pm
* In 1865, Stanley Jevons (one of the most recognized 19th century economists) predicted that England would run out of coal by 1900, and that England’s factories would grind to a standstill.
BillT on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 3:25 pm
I’ll have to listen later. Sounds interesting, but degrowth (contraction) is not in the cards by choice. It will have to be forced on us by the collapse of everything we now take for granted. Some of us are doing it voluntarily, but most are still in denial of need.
SOS on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 4:07 pm
The Limits to Growth (1972) – projected the world would run out of gold by 1981, mercury and silver by 1985, tin by 1987, zinc by 1990, petroleum by 1992, and copper, lead and natural gas by 1993. It also stated that the world had only 33-49 years of aluminum resources left, which means we should run out sometime between 2005-2021. (See Donella Meadows et al., The Limits to Growth: A Report for the Club of Rome’s Project on the Predicament of Mankind. New York: New American Library, 1972
SOS on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 4:09 pm
In 1968, Paul R. Ehrlich wrote The Population Bomb and declared that the battle to feed humanity had been lost and that there would be a major food shortage in the US. “In the 1970s … hundreds of millions are going to starve to death,” and by the 1980s most of the world’s important resources would be depleted. He forecast that 65 million Americans would die of starvation between 1980-1989 and that by 1999, the US population would decline to 22.6 million. The problems in the US would be relatively minor compared to those in the rest of the world. (Ehrlich, Paul R. The Population Bomb. New York, Ballantine Books, 1968.) New Scientist magazine underscored his speech in an editorial titled “In Praise of Prophets.”
SOS on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 4:11 pm
In 1939 the US Department of the Interior said that American oil supplies would last only another 13 years.
SOS on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 5:03 pm
Those forcasts above were, in their time, and some still, considered epic forecasts by brilliant scholars. They are funny to read now arent they?
The basic premise that we have hit, as a civilization I presume?, the point of diminishing returns for additional economic growth, is simply wrong. There is no evidence of this and in fact the evidence contrary to it is so overwheming and ubiquitous to make the suggestion silly.
poaecdotcom on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 5:14 pm
Strawman O Strawman (SOS)
Just because a prediction by an entity proves wrong does not nullify the underlying point.
The world is finite.
Prove that one wrong sucker….
GregT on Mon, 21st Jan 2013 5:59 pm
“The basic premise that we have hit, as a civilization I presume?, the point of diminishing returns for additional economic growth, is simply wrong.”
Tell that to the 47 million Americans that are on food stamps, or the extremely high percentage of homeowners who’s mortgages are effectively under water.
Tell that to young parents who both work and cannot afford to save for a down payment, or in many cases even feed there own children.
3 decades ago, a middle income earner could afford to bring up a family, pay off a mortgage, vacation twice a year, buy a recreational property, own 2 cars, a boat, an RV, all while saving for a comfortable retirement. Without the need for credit cards or massive consumer debt.
This is not considered to be diminishing returns?
Newfie on Tue, 22nd Jan 2013 1:50 am
“The basic premise that we have hit, as a civilization I presume?, the point of diminishing returns for additional economic growth, is simply wrong.”
Tell that to the 25% unemployed in Greece, Spain and Portugal. Soon to be joined by Italy. And the France and Britain. Never ending growth is a fairy tale.
BillT on Tue, 22nd Jan 2013 4:54 am
ECON/SOS are just in deep denial. They don’t see the 2×4 heading for their face … yet. They are so into the idea that the world is infinite. No matter what ‘facts’ they think reinforce their denial, it is still denial. They put themselves above the thousands of actual educated people who say different. Look around. If you are over 50, the depletion is obvious.
Kenz300 on Tue, 22nd Jan 2013 5:36 am
Sustainability is a word that few people know.